10th Jun 2011, 19:55
"J.D. Power announced that Lincoln tops the list of their 2011 Vehicle Dependability Study"
Glad to be of help on this.
14th Jun 2011, 01:04
Frankly, I don't know how much of these reviews that can be trusted. To me, it simply seem that some threads are being taken over by people that is less interested with facts and more with myths. Like the Camry merely collapsing under its own weight with sagging suspension and exhaust systems on even near new cars. It simply all seems like invented claims.
Sorry, a lot of information on this site I'm skeptical about. It's all exaggerated and usually vague.
14th Jun 2011, 13:25
The exhaust sagging problem on pre-2007 Camrys is very well documented. In order to save a few pennies on each car, Toyota did not properly secure the exhaust near the muffler. As a result, the entire exhaust sags, sometimes scraping on the ground. Just look at virtually any pre-2007 Camry and this issue is very obvious. You can spot this problem easily, as in most cases the exhaust sags so much it appears only a couple of inches off the road.
I have no experience or information on Camry suspension sagging, though I do know of two Corollas (both nearly new) that had this issue. My own import (Mazda) suffered from suspension sagging at 84,000 miles. I hear this is common with Japanese brands. They use much thinner, weaker materials in their construction.
14th Jun 2011, 13:48
Yes, Ford has knocked Lexus off as the world's most reliable car. This is not opinion. It's a fact. It was based on actual problems reported on the cars over a three-year period. Ford's Lincoln had fewer problems in long-term reliability than Lexus. Since the survey deals with 3-year-old cars, it means that even BEFORE Ford started its meteoric climb to world-class cars, it ALREADY had the world's most reliable cars. Since 2008 Lincoln has been number 1. Even before that, GM's awesome Buick traded places with Lexus for the number 1 spot. Like the rest of Toyota's lines, Lexus has dropped significantly in quality. See the link below for the facts.
15th Jun 2011, 03:05
You are still missing the point. I agree that Ford are doing very well and has "reinvented itself" in the quality department, and personally I'm glad that Lincoln (and Ford) are churning out high quality cars.
What I'm reacting on is all the people bad mouthing Toyotas and claiming there's a slide in quality. There's no documentation (from JDP VDS or elsewhere) anywhere that can document this. What has happened is that Ford has made a major step forward in the quality department. And instead of saying that Ford is making better cars, people are claiming that Toyota is sliding. The fact is that Toyota is making cars with consistent quality, and it's Ford that are making progress. Toyotas PP100 numbers is quite consistent over the years as a brand. All we can hope for is that Ford can keep up the good work, and that they won't revert to old sins. Maybe then I'll go back to Ford from my current Toyotas. Personally I have very bad experiences with Ford, GM and Chrysler in the 80ies and 90ies when they were making very poor cars. I could go on forever about poor cars "made in Detroit", but I'll stop here. Maybe this is changing and maybe this is a trend. We can only hope so.
Still these good numbers mainly relate to Ford only. Not GM. Not Chrysler. Both these companies are still struggling in the quality department, even if there are some improvements even here. Finally, a quote from JDP illustrating this:
"The study finds that while domestic brands have closed the gap in initial quality with import brands, there is still a considerable difference between the two in vehicle dependability, with import brands outperforming domestic brands by 18 PP100 in 2011."
15th Jun 2011, 06:14
Gimme a break! I know several people, including my wife, that had a 2005 Camry. That was nothing flimsy about that exhaust system on this car, and it was certainly NOT scraping the road. It's absurd people can make such claims.
15th Jun 2011, 10:21
"Yes, Ford has knocked Lexus off as the world's most reliable car. This is not opinion. It's a fact. It was based on actual problems reported on the cars over a three-year period."
Consumer reports ranked Honda, Subaru, and Toyota as the top 3 most reliable automakers. This includes their various brands such as Acura and Lexus. Toyota was only 3rd due to some fit and finish issues with the interiors (big whoop).
So there's your "facts".
15th Jun 2011, 12:48
Consumer Reports bases its reliability ratings on subjective data. They have gotten into trouble in the past by "predicting" that certain cars were tops when they weren't (such as Toyota in 2007), and actually had to print retractions apologizing to their readers.
The J.D. Power surveys are actual surveys of problems based on a huge sampling (44,000 cars) over a three year period. They are accurate and foolproof. Nothing subjective, just the actual problems reported for each brand of car. Since 2008 Ford's Lincoln has been the most reliable car on the planet. Maybe Lexus will come back some day, but since 2008 Lincoln has been number one. The figures can be checked by referring to the website cited in comment 19:55.
True surveys based on actual repairs required are the most solid and reliable means of determining actual quality and reliability of cars. Just as the Initial Quality Survey (IQS) last year was based on actual problems encountered with each brand in the first few months of ownership. In that survey, Toyota was worse than 20 other brands in initial problems (out of 33 car makers) and Ford finished 4th, ahead of Honda.
Any survey based on opinion is suspect. Only surveys based on actual repairs reported can truly give an accurate picture of a car's quality. And right now those surveys show Toyota near the bottom of the barrel.
Often even opinion surveys rate Toyota at the bottom. Two recent comparisons of compact cars, both based on subjective observations of the cars, ranked Hyundai number one, and Toyota dead last in one, and not even tested in the other.
Although this type of discussion may seem tiresome, it serves a purpose. For years people have been misled by myths created by billions of dollars of advertising from Japanese car companies. Many people have lost thousands of dollars by purchasing Japanese brands, only to find that repairs and upkeep are nightmarishly high. I'm one of those people myself. At present I am helping a very dear friend sell his 2009 Corolla, which is falling apart, and I am encouraging him to buy the top-rated Hyundai, even though I personally do not spend my car-buying dollars on foreign-made products. The facts (as shown by solid, objective data) clearly indicate that at present Hyundai and Ford are better, more reliable cars than any made by Japanese companies.
When I post comments, I am very careful to have the facts to back up my comments. When I recommend a car to a friend, it is based on facts. There may have been a time when Japanese cars had a very tiny edge in quality. That time is clearly in the past, if indeed it ever was.
10th Jun 2011, 18:54
Proof of reality on this site also comes from unsatisfied import owners. If you look, you will find a very good amount of them from all brands. For example; look at 2006 Camrys on this site, looks like there are a lot of little blue sad faces.