17th May 2011, 19:53
"One problem that we see much of is people (usually teenagers) who buy or are given an old domestic car that is already well over the hill."
That's definitely not the case we had, or much of anyone else I know either. In our case my family had actually been strong GM people for decades. Then we owned a succession of increasingly shoddy cars ranging from a Delta 88, a Buick Regal, and a Chevy Malibu. ALL of these were perfectly awful cars. We then got a used company car - a Toyota Camry - and the car ran forever with no problems - which at the time was amazing to us. We've never gone back.
Besides - most teenagers I see driving are driving around in souped up Honda Civics or beater Toyotas.
18th May 2011, 09:37
Funny how domestic car people will go to such lengths to explain why domestic cars are junk isn't it? ALL of my GM products, except one, in the past 28 years of driving have been junk. I bought most of them new, and they just didn't hold up compared to the imports I have had.
In my family there have been many GM products as well, and most of them were pretty poor as far as reliability is concerned. No one owns GM these days in my family. We've all learned!
18th May 2011, 10:38
I see just as many if not more teens driving Neons, Cavaliers, Sunfires and Cobalt's...
18th May 2011, 13:57
So now we are arguing about what kinds of cars we see teens driving around in? What purpose does that serve?
18th May 2011, 16:12
Our 1977 Buick LeSabre was sold in like-new condition at 277,000 miles. It had never had even one repair other than tires, batteries and 3 brake jobs.
Our 1975 Ford was traded at 325,000 miles. In 18 years of driving it had cost a total of $500 in repairs.
Our 1990 Dodge was sold at 240,000 miles running like brand new. It had had three brake jobs, two timing belts, one hose and nothing else other than batteries and tires. The A/C still worked perfectly and had never had so much as freon added to it.
Since 1969 we have put over 100,000 miles on several other domestics with never a problem. On the other hand, our three imports all fell apart well before 100,000 miles. Based on our experience, I can easily say domestics are far, far more reliable.
If personal experience is such a good indicator, I'd say our experience clearly argues in favor of domestics. We will never buy another new import. We can't afford the repairs.
18th May 2011, 16:16
Yes it is funny, it's funny how you post the same comment over and over and over again. It's also funny how we never here about your Nissan experience.
19th May 2011, 10:04
And what experience with a Nissan are your referring to? I have never owned a Nissan.
19th May 2011, 17:11
Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you the individual who had not one but two Trailblazers with troubles? If so, I could have sworn on my life that you have stated in the past that you have had a bad Nissan experience. If not, sorry I was wrong, all Toyota lovers who are anti-domestic sound the same.
20th May 2011, 08:49
I never said foreign cars require less maintenance. In my experience they need less REPAIRS. Big difference!
20th May 2011, 08:59
First of all, I am not an import lover. Mustangs are my favorite cars, and I love the Hemi powered Dodges too. I just have much better experience with imports overall, and never seem to have any problems with them like I constantly do with domestic vehicles. It really is about keeping more money in the bank, and not wasting it on low mileage repairs. Imports work for me, and until they prove me wrong by breaking down on me, my opinion will stay the same.
It isn't about "loving" anything more than anything else. It is about NOT spending extra money to keep a car on the road day to day. My opinions are formed from real experiences and not ratings companies and other sources, that favor domestic companies purely because they needed a sales boost.
There was a VERY good reason GM tanked. You don't completely fail from building great vehicles! And in the auto business, you don't do a complete 180 in one year and suddenly shoot to the top of every ratings chart, especially when you still sell many of the same exact vehicles you did when you crashed and burned. People keep gong on about Japanese myths and hype, but no one seems to question how GM pulled off the impossible feat. If anything, domestic lovers are all starting to sound the same. No one can explain this ridiculous comeback, and yet they constantly defend them like they have always been such a great company... whatever.
20th May 2011, 10:41
"Damn, if all you foreign car owners have so much proof of domestics requiring more maintenance than a foreign vehicle, I would love to see it."
Nobody said that. Secondly, and again - "Foreign" is too generic a term anyway. It's about specific companies. For all practical purposes, your Sunfire could actually be a foreign car, as many were made in Mexico. If we're talking Yugo - well yeah, they made some duds. So too has Mitsubishi. But overall Toyota, Honda, and Nissan have for the most part produced broadly competent vehicles.
Remember - none of the Japanese car companies that some of you folks here so loathe and proclaim as faulty, had any history in this country until the 70's. They had zero reputation, zero customer history, and zero recognition. That reputation for reliability had to be earned, unlike the Big 3, which were the only thing you could buy for decades by default. Entering an entirely different market, and winning a large and loyal customer base via a built reputation of reliability, more or less proves that yes - the big 3 Japanese automakers did in fact, and still do make a quality product.
That isn't to say the Big 3 have not learned from this. If not for this fierce competition, I'd say they would still be happy to build antiquated, lumbering cast iron land yachts with 50+ year old technology. As of now, they're actually making some vehicles I might consider. 7 years ago, none of the big 3 vehicles I saw were at all appealing to me. There was a lot of cost-cutting, bean-counting, slipshod maneuvering happening back then. Lots of badge engineering too (like your Sunfire, which was just a Cavalier with a different set of headlights). That, and they were still building a ton of Grannymobiles - AKA Buick, Cadillac, and Lincolns, which was a shame, given these had been highly stylized, desirable and stylish lines back in the day.
These days they've started getting it right. All of the grannymobiles were dropped, and now Cadillac, Buick, and Lincoln make some nice looking cars. They're not quite there yet, in that they really compete with the German luxury cars, but they're close. Either way, a HUGE improvement over what they used to produce. What's more, Ford and GM now make a couple of small cars that are actually nice. They used to make the most utterly mundane, uninspiring, plasticy small car. The Cruze, Fiesta, and upcoming Focus are all highly competitive small cars, that more carefully focus on the small car buyer that wants a nice car - but a small car.
Where am I going with this? For decades, the big Japanese car companies focused on product, quality, and the customer. During that same time, the Big 3 focused primarily on sales and bean-counting, selling what amounted to cookie-cutter, slipshod products. It took them a long time to realize that model is not sustainable. During that entire time, it was depressing to me to see this. But now I think the Big 3 are back on track, and have gotten back into the business of building cars people can have passion about, and probably get good service out of. That said - Toyota, Honda, and Nissan still build a fantastic product. Now that GM and Ford now build good products, then perhaps we as the consumer will more directly benefit from that end result.
17th May 2011, 13:14
Thank you. One problem that we see much of is people (usually teenagers) who buy or are given an old domestic car that is already well over the hill. When they inevitably have problems, they are prone to fall for the ad-driven myth that "domestics are crap". There are good and bad cars from every car maker. If I based my opinion on the cars we have bought new (most of them), it would overwhelmingly be in favor of domestics (even those from the 80's and 90's) being far more reliable. If I based it solely on bad experience, I'd be ranting about how bad Honda is because our one Honda experience (and it too was bought new) was a disaster. In all fairness, one of my best friends has a Honda that just passed 200,000 miles without a problem, so I know some of them are good. My preference is domestics, because of all the cars we've owned (a lot over the 48 years I've been driving), we've never had any problems with any of them, whether they were Ford, GM or Chrysler. We also strongly prefer to help American industry as opposed to sending our money out of the country.
With regard to the new Chevy Volt, it is second only to the Fusion Hybrid in quality, reliability and practicality. Both Ford and GM have solved the problem of jerky transitioning from electric to gas power that plagues every other hybrid. In addition, the Volt can be driven coast-to-coast without a recharge if the need arises. The Nissan leaf is only good for 40-80 miles at most before you are stranded and faced with an hours-long recharge. It has the practicality of a golf cart. I'd gladly pay 10 grand more for the much better styling and unlimited range of the Volt. As it is, I currently can get 37 mpg in my I-4 non-hybrid Fusion by driving the interstate speed limit, so I see no need to move to a hybrid at this point.