20th May 2011, 17:56
Yeah, well my experiences with Ford and GM have been good enough for me to continue to own those to brands, to the point of me not considering anything else. All except for one GM car have made it beyond the 130,000 mile mark with no problems, to the point where I would never purchase them again.
As for GM quality, yes it has gone down quite a bit. Hopefully they start producing the quality like they did prior to the mid 90's.
Am I a "domestic lover"? Well I could say in my opinion that domestic styling has always outdone the imports, inside and out. As far as problems, EVERY manufacturer has them, import and domestics, I see it almost everyday.
21st May 2011, 18:46
"Cadillac, Buick, and Lincoln make some nice looking cars. They're not quite there yet, in that they really compete with the German luxury cars, but they're close."
Actually, they aren't close...They're AHEAD. The Cadillac CTS V was recently tested against the Mercedes AMG, and beat it in every test except top speed (in which it TIED it). It beat it in acceleration, cornering and braking. The Mustang Boss 302 took on the BMW M3 and blew it away so easily in speed, cornering and acceleration that Ford is looking at a match-up with Ferrari. As of March 2011, Lincoln toppled Lexus from the spot as the world's best car in terms of long-term reliability and build quality. Before that, Buick had traded places with Lexus for a decade as the number one best car on Earth. Reliable and well built domestic cars have been around for a very long time.
As for the Japanese... well, Honda is holding up pretty well in spite of major transmission issues. It still ranks 5th place in reliability (BEHIND Ford). Nissan has never been noted as a very good car maker (witness the Titan/Armada fiasco), and Toyota now has 20 other car makers that are ranked as better built and more reliable. The well-paid-for myth of Japanese reliability is losing ground fast. I just watched an auto-cross competition, in which the Japanese cars were falling out left and right with smoke pouring from the engine bays. Ford and Hyundai were leaving everyone in the dust, with Ford ultimately winning the championship. Toyota wasn't even in the competition at all. They don't build anything faster than a riding lawn mower anyway.
22nd May 2011, 11:06
Okay, do you see where all of your dominating domestic points originate? Speed, handling, performance, etc., etc.. That was great... 20 years ago when gas was $1.49 per gallon. What do any of the brands you quote offer up for REAL world driving where you want to save gas?
Plus to keep quoting your myths about Japanese myths is getting old. Toyota and Honda and every other Japanese car maker gained popularity by blowing the domestic competition out of the water for DECADES. There is no myth about that.
Plus you say Toyota makes nothing that outperforms a lawn mower, so you obviously have NEVER driven one. Tell you what, you bring your current Ford or GM SUV of choice... Equinox, Tahoe, Traverse, Escape, Explorer... whatever you like. I will bring my RAV 4 and we will drag them. Since performance is so important to you, and you think your domestics are so much faster, we will race for titles. Winner takes all! I could use the extra cash when I sell yours off after I totally blow you away in the race! Put the same V6 in the Camry, and there isn't much that will touch it... other than maybe a Lexus or an Infiniti. Nothing on the domestic scene though, until you have spent way over twice the price that is, as would be the case for the cars you quoted as being so great, like the CTS.
Also, if you like resale, you better steer well away from any domestic luxury brand. They sink like rocks as soon as you pull off the dealer's lots. I have known many people that have literally spent $1 or more PER MILE to own Cadillacs and Lincolns, and that was just for depreciation, never mind gas usage, maintenance and repairs. They are well known for losing a ton of value. Toyotas still outvalue most domestics even after all the recalls. Imagine in a year or two when they recall mess is a long forgotten memory. Toyota will rocket back to the top soon enough. Lexus is already there, which is proof positive that Toyota's standing is much more about perception than actual lower quality. Same has happened to Mercury and Ford. People think Mercury is a low quality brand, but Ford ranks high with EXACTLY the same cars. Kinda takes the wind out of the sails for credibility on the ratings doesn't it?
22nd May 2011, 17:45
"Am I a "domestic lover"? Well I could say in my opinion that domestic styling has always outdone the imports, inside and out."
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. All I can think of as far as what Ford and GM made when I was growing up were rather forgettable cars like the Cavalier, Celebrity, Escort, Taurus, and the "new" Mustang that came out in the early 90's- basically a big bubblicious looking lozenge wrapped in plastic. Oh - and let's not forget the Chevy Impala of the late 80's. If ever there were words to describe horrific styling, I think that car would fulfill that definition. On the other hand the Big 3 are now making some pretty attractive looking cars. That is to say that aren't plasticy looking jellybeans anymore.
"Actually, they aren't close...They're AHEAD. The Cadillac CTS V was recently tested against the Mercedes AMG, and beat it in every test except top speed (in which it TIED it). It beat it in acceleration, cornering and braking. The Mustang Boss 302 took on the BMW M3 and blew it away so easily in speed, cornering and acceleration that Ford is looking at a match-up with Ferrari. As of March 2011, Lincoln toppled Lexus from the spot as the world's best car in terms of long-term reliability and build quality."
People don't typically buy luxury cars because they want the fastest car. They buy them because they want prestige, class, and styling. While I personally like the styling of the new Cadillacs more than most of the German cars, I have to say that all in all, makes like BMW and Mercedes are still better at handling their interiors and fit and finish, along with having a better understanding of how to produce cars that have a certain understated styling that is more timeless. The first generation CTS already looks badly dated. The 2nd one is already a bit long in the tooth. Yet a 10 year old BMW still looks much the same as many of the newer models, yet it has class. Now - given I would probably trust a Cadillac in regards to reliability over a BMW... but BMW still builds a nicer car. Let me just put it this way - I live in Silicon Valley. It's safe to say that the cars of choice for the rich still seem to be BMW, Mercedes, and even Audi. There's something about these makes that people of that class seem to love. I'm not sure if Cadillac has hit the mark quite yet. The brand still needs some tuning.
As far as Lincoln... There's no contest. Ford desperately needs to stop badge engineering Lincoln. All of their current models use Ford brand cars and SUVs. The MKZ is basically a Fusion with nicer trim.
"As for the Japanese... well, Honda is holding up pretty well in spite of major transmission issues. It still ranks 5th place in reliability (BEHIND Ford). Nissan has never been noted as a very good car maker (witness the Titan/Armada fiasco), and Toyota now has 20 other car makers that are ranked as better built and more reliable. The well-paid-for myth of Japanese reliability is losing ground fast."
Again - the "myth" was created from decades of built-up customer loyalty from their experiences owning Toyota, Honda, and Nissan products. It used to be that Americans had no other choice than buy big 3 products. That they slowly shifted to the Big 3 Japanese brands is merely the result of good engineering. Americans aren't stupid, and they'll buy what the think is best. If the Big American 3 can continue on their more recent success by focusing on quality then good for we the consumers. But there was never a myth. The fact that as I write this I have 4 Toyotas in my family - all of which have a minimum of 250,00 and a max of 315,000 miles on them is pretty much the exception with this brand.
20th May 2011, 13:30
All the proof I need is my own experiences with GM products. Good for you to have that one in 10,000 that is "flawless". I wish I could have been so lucky with any of my GM products. I'd have a lot more money in the bank. I will be sticking to imports for the most part, other than the occasional Mustang of course!
Based on my experience, you'd have as much to prove about your trouble free GM product! I don't buy it!