8th Mar 2011, 17:34
"The reality of it is that you can find sources that tell you what you want to hear about any manufacturer"
So true. And import fans are very selective in finding a handful of highly biased sources to try and offset the fact that no automaker in the history of transportation has recalled as many cars in a brief two-year period as Toyota. How anyone would trust a car maker that had to be FORCED to recall their cars three times in one year is beyond me. Occasionally a domestic maker will VOLUNTARILY recall a few thousand vehicles for non-safety issues. Toyota just had to recall yet ANOTHER 2.2 MILLION cars for deadly safety defects. The logic of supporting that type of car maker is questionable.
9th Mar 2011, 10:09
I'd hardly call Consumer Reports, J.D. Powers, Edmunds, Car and Driver, Motor Trend, KBB, etc., etc. a handful of sources. They all place imports above domestics in overall quality and reliability. Consumer Reports and J.D. Powers base their findings on consumers personal experience with specific brands, so how is that biased? I guess if your favorite brand doesn't score well, then the source is biased? Ironically, it was the domestic fans that praised J.D. Powers for months of posting on this site. That is until someone actually researched their results and found that imports are the dominant lines if you compare all of their data, and not just a few select pieces of it.
And funny thing is, Toyota still outranks most domestics as a higher quality line of cars and trucks, even with the recalls. Once they straighten out their recall mess, which they are working hard to do and soon will, they will be so far beyond any domestic company, it won't even be a contest anymore.
So, it doesn't matter what anyone's opinions are on this subject. Imports dominate and that is fact. I could write my own reports based on my own experiences, and my results would be the same. Imports are far better in reliability than virtually any domestic car I have owned. Fact, not opinion.
9th Mar 2011, 15:40
I guess in the end to me it really doesn't matter what various reports say about such and such brand. I've owned nothing but Toyota for my entire life, and NONE of them have EVER had a serious problem. I mean like NEVER. Not even after hundreds of thousands of miles. Posting anti-Toyota posts isn't going to change my mind, and it's also not going to change anyone else's either.
10th Mar 2011, 19:43
"I'd hardly call Consumer Reports, J.D. Powers..."
J.D. Powers ranks Toyota TWENTY-FIRST in initial quality out of 33 car makers. Ford ranks FOURTH (ABOVE Honda), and just about EVERYTHING ranks higher than Toyota, so where people keep getting these ideas that TOYOTA (of all car makers!! 10 million recalls and counting!!) is ranked higher than ANYONE is beyond me!! Also, Ford has just as many "recommended buys" in Consumer Reports as Toyota does.
11th Mar 2011, 15:09
Thank you, this is exactly what I was talking about. Selective facts posted from J.D. Powers. Go back and look at Lexus and how they rate. Lexus uses much of the same components Toyota does, yet they rank above virtually every car on their site. imports dominate OVERALL even if there are a few categories of weak spots.
J.D. Powers uses consumer facts and perception of brands to identify which brands are good and bad. Imports continually outscore domestics, and Toyota is included in these findings on many sources EVEN with the recalls! Consumer Reports keeps publishing lists of the best of... Toyota's and Honda's still dominate for best of resale, reliability, quality, and they also topped the "best used cars to buy" list recently released. Frankly, I am surprised too with all of Toyotas recalls, but they are still ranked higher overall on more lists than not. No matter how many times you quote the same snippet of info from J.D. Powers and type in caps with "!!!" at the end, it won't make a difference to the total picture.
The flaw with J.D. Powers in using perception data, is that the public in general doesn't know who makes what. Lexus scored higher than any car they tested. There was another list a month or two ago that did the same thing with Ford and Mercury. Ford scored really high for quality and dependability, but Mercury was close to the bottom. In this case, the cars are virtually identical, other than a couple of models. The public's perception is different for Mercury though, and therefore it ranks low.
Really, how much faith you want to put in ratings systems is your choice. I go by personal experience, as the ratings system is severely flawed, in that so many conflicting reports about what is good and what is bad exist. In my personal experience, and with everyone I know personally, imports dominate over domestics in pretty much every case. Ford is better than GM, but still has more issues than Toyota or Honda... for me personally. I won't even rehash my poor experience with GM products. I won't ever own another... ever. I may buy another Ford, as the one I have now isn't all that bad. The import offerings are more appealing though in most segments, so who knows. There are a lot of new things coming out in the next year or two, when it will be time to trade again. I am not a diehard fan of either, but I usually stick with what costs me less to operate and maintain. Imports have proven to be cheaper to own overall for me, plain and simple. There is nothing you or anyone else can do to change this fact, so quoting list rankings and recall numbers makes absolutely no difference to me. Until I consistently have issues with any import, like I have with my GM vehicles, I will continue to go with my own personal facts instead of any other source. You hate Toyota, I get it. I also get that you've never actually owned one, so you are basing your opinions purely on propaganda. Too bad. You'll miss out on a lot of nice vehicles that way.
11th Mar 2011, 17:21
It's a sad commentary on the extent that Japanese companies have brainwashed American car buyers, when having the largest recall in the history of the automobile, and ranking fully 17 rankings below Ford, still isn't considered in brand loyalty.
11th Mar 2011, 18:25
I've had nothing but a positive experience with my Toyota and so has my father. He can't say that about GM, which is what he really wanted when he came here as an immigrant. The domestics brands let him down big time.
Also, why is it that some who swear by domestic cars, feel the many years of domination of Toyota and Honda in publications like J.D. Power or Consumer Reports over anything domestic, is simply ad hype, biased publishing, or even brainwashing? Yet they are never able to produce a true example of these claims. Simply saying something does not make it true. But now that Ford ranks higher than Toyota in some of these publications, they see it as true and important evidence that Ford is and always has been the best brand, and Toyota and Honda are no good.
Also, why have Toyota's introductions of class leading safety features been ignored? Even the Tiny Yaris, which was never affected by the recalls, now has standard stability control, and a override system that will cut fuel to the engine in an emergency braking situation.
7th Mar 2011, 22:57
Wow, a whole three months. Toyota is the number one automaker in the world, and they build cars in the U.S. too. They have been for a long time. Also, it's more like a big boost to the Mexican economy, because that's where Ford loves to have its cars made.
GM, otherwise known as Government Motors, is so lucky. They get a free ride from the Government. Show me any other capitalist company that can screw up for over 25 years, and lose BILLIONS, and still be in business.