19th Apr 2007, 04:16

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steven@carsurvey.org:

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I become rather uncomfortable when people start making statistical claims for the site.

To keep things straight, I've run some database queries so that people have accurate figures (at least for the date of this comment).

Taurus reviews (2002 - 2005 year of manufacture):

36 in total, 26 of whom would buy another Ford = 72.2%

Camry reviews (2002 - 2005 year of manufacture):

58 in total, 25 of whom would buy another Toyota = 43.1%

However, if you measure the number of reviews for that period where the reviewer wouldn't buy from that manufacturer again:

Taurus = 9, which works out as 25%

Camry = 24, which works out as 41.3%

Please note that Carsurvey.org is not collecting data in a statistically sound way, so be careful what conclusions you draw from the figures.

19th Apr 2007, 08:42

Also keep in mind that Toyota and Mercedes, UNLIKE the domestic manufacturers, are taking serious steps to build quality into their cars again.

All the domestics can do is run useless ad campaigns that fool people into thinking their car will be well built, such as Ford's ridiculous "Quality is Job 1" promotion that would have been illegal in many countries due to its unfounded basis.

19th Apr 2007, 12:57

It all comes down to downtime, repairs and if your warranty is honored. That's why I now own domestics.

19th Apr 2007, 16:48

Really? You yourself made a very misleading comment. You have Toyota and the domestics mixed up. There is a reason why the 2006 Camry is unreliable and has terrible quality, and that's because the quality is DROPPING. Look at the new domestics, GM for example. The quality of these new vehicles are light years ahead of the previous models, even only a few years older. Now look at the new Toyotas, and the poor quality of materials used, inferior to the previous models, even only a few years older. And still to-date, the only vehicles to break down on our auto-ships were a Toyota make. Domestics? Nope.

19th Apr 2007, 17:02

I have rarely or probably never encountered a group of people more unreasonable than the domestic vehicle owners that try to discredit Toyota, one of if not THE highest quality automaker in the world. They are BUILT BETTER than Ford, Chevy, Dodge, Buick, whatever. They're built better than EVERYTHING else other than maybe Honda's. I believe that if God himself appeared in front of you and confirmed this, you guys would call Him biased!

Speaking of Toyota's and Honda's, it breaks down like this: since their inception, they have received higher quality ratings, been rated as more reliable, better built automobiles than anything else out there by the experts; Consumer Reports, Car and Driver, Edmund's to name a few.

How do you think these publications get their info.? They survey actual vehicle owners, talk to mechanics in garages around the country, and inspect and test the cars themselves! And Toyota and Honda always come out ahead in the overall standings. Every year.

Do you guys REALLY think that if Chevy made something like the Cobalt, being cheaper than an import, that people wouldn't be buying it like crazy if it were BETTER, too? It's common sense! If it were less expensive AND better, people wouldn't even consider Accords and Camry's! But, obviously it isn't better, it's just cheaper.

So, sales numbers tell us that people are willing to pay a few thousand more for a better made Accord or Camry. Again, common sense. You have two choices; spend less on a Chevy or Ford, and get a car that's mediocre. Or, spend a few thousand more, and get a great car that's been proven reliable over the last 25 years. That's it.

If you buy a Cobalt or a Fusion and you think that it surpasses a Toyota or Honda in quality, then you need your head examined. AGAIN, if they were cheaper AND better, people wouldn't buy Toyota's and Honda's, but we do because a lot of us have past experience with GM and Ford, and with Toyota and Honda, and the imports are way better cars. That is of course the reason that people are buying a lot more of them than they are of Big 3 cars.

If you buy a tool, or a piece of machinery from Lowe's or Home Depot, different manufacturers make the same tool, but some are better made and some are cheaper, so it is the consumer's choice to decide whether he or she wants to spend money on something cheaper that they know will break more often and not perform as well, or to fork out the money for a quality tool that will be reliable and perform very well. This is why if I'm going to buy a 3/4" socket from Sears, I'm going to spend more for an S@K socket, and leave the cheap Master Mechanic sockets sit there. I'll probably have the S@K socket my whole life, and the cheaper one will probably strip out or split after a short while. In that case, the tool fails me, and I'm back at Sears buying another one when I should have just bought the good one in the first place, gotten the job done, and still had a good tool to use.

It's a lengthy analogy, but my point is that that's why I'll spend more for a Camry or whatever than I will for a Cobalt or a Fusion. I know it's the better machine, I know it'll break less, and I know it'll perform well and I'll have it for a lone time. That's why I'll pass on the Cobalt; I know it's made cheaper, it'll break more, and I'll be back buying another one sooner than if I'd just done the smart thing and spent the money on a good machine like the Camry.

19th Apr 2007, 17:26

I see we haven't read the reviews of GM cars on this site, especially the Buick ones where the windows won't even open.

And my Scion xB was flawless and had an interior lightyears ahead of anything the domestics offer. Want proof? Even Bob Lutz, car czar for GM, admitted that the Cadillac interiors were inferior.

19th Apr 2007, 19:22

Went from Acura to high end GM's for the very same reason. I thought Hondas top of the line offerings were better... found out through Hondas fault for not supplying a mechanically sound vehicle. If they make another Legend or anywhere close to that quality I had as a new vehicle I may reconsider. What happened to the 80-90's quality that was present in Toyota/Honda? The quality of my 2007 GM's are outstanding. In the 80-90's I would not have thought that to be possible, but I am pleased to date. I have 30,000 miles on one already with just oil changes and upgrades instead of repairs.