25th May 2009, 16:36

11:37:

Your post is all cherry picked results. If you examine the overall averaged totals for GM, they rank below average. Moreover, you neither backed your claim that Japanese cars were surpassed years ago (you only talk current models and do no averaging at that) nor that its "all ad hype and myth". Neither claim is backed by a shred of evidence.

Go to JD Powers' site. Average GM's scores. Present them. Prove me wrong. Show some similar averages from recent years to further prove your point... no? Didn't think so. I've posted the results on other threads and get nothing but crickets responding. Data is so dry!!

You want to back the idea that "it's all ad hype and myth" on the authority of your supposed credentials? You say you're a therapist and that if I post that you lack sources, I'm responding to said hype? If so, you are acting outside of your professional bounds. Long distance analysis of a stranger from what they post on a blog is meritless. My brother-in-law is a psychologist -- I know a little about the profession.

So, to conclude, you wrote "Not only that, but both GM and Ford long ago matched or surpassed the build quality of vehicles made by Japanese or German companies."

YOU are the one who made the broad-brush claim that suggests a better average. When I brought up the fact that you have no sources, you responded by picking out some rather superior examples and treating them as some sort of average... they are not even close. Show me the average scores of GM and Chrysler in particular (Ford is another story--they're a step above the others in nearly every survey) and prove how they are superior. You can't make a claim that GMs are better and have been for years and then think that anything but a corporate average can prove you right.

I wrote "There isn't ONE reputable source to back up that claim".

There isn't...or at least I'm still waiting for one.

Ad Hype? Myth? Who's quoting ads? The "myths" are based on surveys (some of the same ones that you picked individual results from) and personal experiences. Ford had ads touting their quality. Why didn't THEY work? Only the Japanese propaganda does? Why? Hey maybe it's 'cause lots of folks have had good experiences to back up the ads. It's obvious that the claim that Japanese vehicles' reliability is a conjured up scheme is a baseless idea in itself, pulled from prejudice rather than facts.

25th May 2009, 17:24

"If everyone did this, we'd have no recession and extremely low unemployment.

...and apparently no bank failures, energy crisis or housing crisis either."

This is probably very true. Why are people losing their homes? Because they aren't making enough money to pay their mortgages. And why is that? In many cases because their companies have cut back due to foreign companies taking away their business. Banks are failing because people can't work and pay their bills.

It is amazing to me that American citizens are so complacent about the effects of sending our money to other countries. Americans are downright hostile to anyone who dares to suggest buying American. That is absolutely ludicrous. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face!! One out of every TEN jobs in the U.S. is auto-related, and only 9% of that is Japanese. Those who bash domestic cars and people who are patriotic enough to buy them have done irreparable harm to the 91% of their fellow citizens' jobs.

As for an "energy crisis", at present that is solved. Not even those Americans who turned their backs on U.S. industry and bought Toyotas and Hondas can afford to drive them now.

25th May 2009, 17:33

"We bought a 2006 Fusion SE 4-cylinder for our dog.

???

Yeah, but does he have a driver's license?"

It's a SHE and she is very generous in letting me drive for her. She is prone to road rage if she sees a cat and I don't want her chasing one across someone's yard in the Fusion.

We bought her the Fusion to replace her 2001 Pontiac because she was embarrassed by the newer cars other dogs were showing up at the park in. Now she is less self-conscious, although she is mad that this one doesn't have a sun roof. What she really wants is a vintage Mustang convertible.

26th May 2009, 11:17

Yes, and my dog wants a Porsche, but my wife won't let me... I mean won't let him, have one.

26th May 2009, 15:47

Consumer Reports, maybe? It's not for both GM and Ford. Only Ford. And it's not long ago either. It's the Fusion that achieved only 3 years ago.

26th May 2009, 18:32

It is fairly well documented that the reasons for the mortgage crisis and the associated bank failures were that many of the mortgages should never have been written and underwritten in the first place + higher energy prices. Energy prices drove up costs to those who were too close to the margin, who had too much mortgage for their incomes. People will usually give up shelter before food... thus the foreclosure spike. Enough banks were invested in real estate to cause real hurt when values began to fall.

All of this has been hashed over at length in business publications. While your points are valid, they probably don't represent the PRIMARY movers behind this particular recession. Otherwise I mostly agree and have been trying to buy American for several years now.

26th May 2009, 23:49

Oh, come on, give the poor dog a Porsche!! Just be sure to wrap his leash around the emergency brake so he won't jump out when he sees a cat!!

27th May 2009, 12:05

In the 90's Toyota started running a series of ads for the Camry that showed a broken down Taurus being towed in the background in every ad. I'm sure your psychologist relative is just as familiar with the effects of subliminal cues as I am. It was no coincidence that after these ads were run people somehow started "remembering" seeing broken down Fords everywhere. Ironically, they could never remember WHERE or WHEN. In 30 years of driving I've seen exactly ONE Taurus broken down on the side of the road. It was very old and probably had 400,000 miles on it. The only cars that have ever left me or my wife stranded on the road were both Toyotas.

In addition, there is no RELIABLE source to truly prove reliability other than frequency of repair records, and Japanese car companies are not about to release those. Virtually every magazine and rating service in the U.S. is heavily biased toward anything not made by American companies and any time one of them DOES praise an American car it HAS to be far better than they admit. For some reason that I have never been able to fathom, ANYTHING American is considered inferior by Americans. This is sad, because it is currently destroying the lives of millions of our fellow citizens.

I've owned and worked on Japanese and American cars. The structural components of the Japanese cars are horribly under-engineered. Brakes are smaller, axle shafts are smaller and frame components are smaller (and NO, they are NOT magically STRONGER because they are Japanese metal!)

Our Japanese cars required brake pads twice to three times as often as our domestics. The bodies were flimsier and the interiors not nearly as durable. Japanese cars have for decades been shown to be less safe in crashes than comparable domestics. One of our dear friends was killed when the "crumple zones" in her Acura crumpled all the way back into the passenger compartment and crumpled HER. The Ford she hit was DRIVEN HOME.

If people choose to believe any well-ingrained myth it is virtually impossible to persuade them to see the truth with any number of facts or examples. If people choose to follow the subliminally embedded information in Japanese car ads, no amount of facts will ever change them. At least the German car companies are honest. The basic message of BMW and Mercedes ads is simply "We cost a lot and if you buy us people will think you're important".