2nd Dec 2009, 12:56
"It DOES NOT MATTER if Ford outsources the Fusion."
It certainly does matter, that is one the the most illogical arguments you have ever made.
2nd Dec 2009, 13:05
"First off, Ford DIDN'T TAKE A PENNY"
You are right about that, Ford does seem to be a little more on the ball than GM or Chrysler, as I understand it they had already secured their own source of funding. Which is probably a good thing since had they taken bailout money I believe they would have had to deal with more governmental control. I don't think that the Fords would like the government setting their salaries, do you?
Also, I can't get all excited about the "car of the year" Fusion, since it is being built in Mexico, instead of here in the USA.
2nd Dec 2009, 13:20
This argument is really flawed because that 14 million you claim the big three are responsible includes outside sources such as parts and supplies etc, etc. The 1.4 million import jobs are directly provided by the import companies, who also support the parts and supplies industries in the auto business. This is why your argument is flawed and conveniently biased toward domestic companies.
Also, any Ford dealer that keeps a slew of imports on their lots as used cars is not a really good dealer. Any good dealer would trade them at the auction for good used Fords with low miles. My Ford dealer has almost all Fords on their used lot, because that is what people who go to Ford dealers want to buy... Fords. They even told me that it makes no sense to have much of anything else unless it is super low mileage and mint. Even then, they only keep the car for a short time as it is a waste of money for them to have the car for too long.
2nd Dec 2009, 13:34
Do you know how GM is paying back their government loans? They are doing it with more government loans! They are paying back the government with the governments own money and will still owe it to them. How much of that will slip through the cracks?
Ford also lined themselves up for $ billions, but took a hit on their profits with massive rebates and incentives and got really lucky... for now. They definitely have the best plan. Of course that does include the continuation of foreign plant construction and the further closing of U.S. plants. According to you, however, they could close every last plant and outsource every last job and it still wouldn't affect the job market in the U.S. Not sure how you figure that. 0 jobs doesn't seem to add up to 90% to me.. huh.
Again the Japanese companies are the smartest. They got free land and money with no strings attached. Must have had the same attorney that worked out the deal for the banks!! And you blame them for this? So, if the government called you up and said they'd fund your business and give you free land to run it on, you'd turn that down? Yeah right!!
Again, you are pointing the finger at the wrong people. Anyone in their right mind would take "no strings attached" perks. You only have the government to blame for that. It is our own countries in competencies that you should be putting the blame on in the auto industry AND the government... not Honda and Toyota. Maybe you should do a little more research. And don't just watch CNN. They have stories that support both sides of this argument... if you really research them!
2nd Dec 2009, 12:47
"I really don't feel that wanting to save 14,000,000 Americans jobs is a "dead argument"."
Please then explain to me why 14 million jobs are suddenly in jeopardy after 30+ years of foreign competition? The only answer is domestic incompetence and you are blindly supporting it. Do you really think that buying a Ford or Chevy is going to change that or save the country for that matter? Please!!
It is a dead argument because who knows what buying American really is since there has been so much cross marketing and use of foreign products within all car lines. You say buy a Chevy, but the Isuzu is essentially the same thing, and the majority of profits most assuredly go to GM for the sale of it. Is this an import lovers car?
The last Saturn Vue was using a Honda 3.5 V-6 as it powerplant, so is that person driving an American car or a Japanese one? I could write about countless other examples, but you get the point I am sure...
Read the article I pasted the link for awhile back, and you'll get some insight into what is really going on in the auto industry (funny I have seen no justification posts based on that article). It is not as black and white as you seem to want to believe it is. You are so hung up on this 90% argument, but that is not really an accurate assessment of the industry when there are so many things changing within it year to year. Believe me, it will soon be more like 50% or less if our companies continue their merciless track of closing plants here and spending $ billions on new ones in other countries ($ billions of our tax money. Talk about sending American dollars into foreign markets!!). The foreign car companies are now the ONLY ones INVESTING IN U.S. WORKERS (I'm not talking about the current workers but new ones). They are trying to create jobs and have created hundreds of thousands of jobs already. Yes it is only a fraction (for now), but they are going in the right direction. Ford and GM are NOT. You'll see the tide turn within maybe a few years on the whole labor thing. Then we'll see how supportive you are of these companies that care NOTHING about the U.S. worker compared to their bottom line, and will cut the throat of any U.S. worker if they can get their job done cheaper by a foreigner.
Of course The Fusion keeps coming up as such a great car and a good competitor. However, the fact that it creates 0 jobs for U.S. auto workers doesn't seem to have any effect on you. That just blows my mind... the length you'll go to to defend these businesses. Remember, it is Fords ONLY competitive car and it is not even built in the U.S... you know the country they are supposed to care so much about?? It's not a matter of "if" they will outsource much more of their labor but "when". It will be as swiftly as they can possibly build the plants and start saving the money. Be proud that the new Ford or Chevy you bought contributed to the new state-of-the-art plant in Mexico. If you think those profits are going anywhere else in this economy of cutting costs and overhead, then you are really misinformed.
I know... you'll just say well what about the 14,000,000 jobs they are saving? I say, what about the 14,000,000 jobs they themselves put into jeopardy by being so incompetent in the first place? You are just a little too willing to sweep all of it under the rug and forget about it as long as all is well and you can enjoy your Christmas. Well, sorry to tell you... this isn't going to just go away. It will persist until it is changed. It will crash and burn soon enough, so why not get it over with and move on to better days. I still find it hard to believe that so many jobs would actually be lost even if the car companies failed. You should have more faith in the resolve of Americans than that. It is shameful that people would rather give these people the greenlight to continue their ways than to make things right so future generations may be able to enjoy a good U.S. someday, instead of the one we have now that is hinging on being in ruins.