5th Dec 2009, 11:28

17:33

I drive a domestic, pay taxes, and was born here in the USA, but I must say that I believe your argument is a very flawed one and your figures questionable.

The US Automakers would not need to outsource at all if they had shown planning and foresight, not to mention building a quality product to begin with. It seems to me that the Big Three only began to improve the quality of their vehicles when the imports were threatening their piece of the pie, because many imports (especially those built from the late eighties and thru the nineties) were assembled with far more care than the domestic cars of the same time period. I would also have to say that the shoddy workmanship of domestic cars of the 1970's certainly opened the door to foreign competition.

I would like to see the day come when you stop blaming your hard-working fellow Americans, and acknowledge that the US Automakers had a major role in their own downfall.

6th Dec 2009, 10:35

Thank you comment 11:28! Thank you for speaking the truth and not bending facts to suit your needs. Your comment is the most sensible one I have seen in a long time.

7th Dec 2009, 08:04

So you admit they are unable to conduct a "patriotic" business that can survive with ONLY U.S. workers and you are okay with it! Believe me, more and more plants will be closed here and more jobs lost to foreigners so they can continue to cut their costs and be profitable. Can't wait to hear your justification when they are up to like 60% of outsourced labor and that 14 million jobs is cut in half.

Import plants pay no taxes because our own government gave them that perk. You'd pay no taxes too if the government said you didn't have to. It obviously was an incentive for them to invest here in the U.S. with factories and such. Blame the government, but don't be bitter towards the import companies. And how do they send all of their profits to Japan when they have to keep building their cars here and paying their U.S. employees who work here? You also say that the domestics re-invest most of their profits here, but that is contradictory of Fords $billions invested in foreign plants isn't it? If they made a profit of $1.2 billion, but they invest $billions in foreign plants over the next few years, what percentage is going towards investing in the U.S.? Pretty simple math tells me that the import companies are actually investing more in our country than our own companies. Yes the domestics provide more jobs currently, but they are trying really hard to change that aren't they?

7th Dec 2009, 08:06

Maybe by not giving money and giving any tax concessions to import plants in America, we might eliminate outsourcing. Why can't they pay us back, although giving away is not a loan.

7th Dec 2009, 11:34

Where does this MYTH about "shoddy workmanship of the 1970's" domestic cars come from? We owned a number of domestics from the 70's and 80's. Several of them made over 200,000 miles without a single repair. That's "shoddy"?

Also, since I just sold one of my newer cars I decided I wanted to look at getting a very old (pre-1985) car as a second car because they are far more simple and easier and cheaper to maintain due to a lack of complicated (and expensive) electronics. I viewed all the ads for pre-1985 cars in my area and found literally DOZENS of pre-1980 GM, Ford and Chrysler cars. I have pretty much narrowed it down to a 1973 Olds Delta 88 Coupe or a 1973 Plymouth Valiant. Both are in excellent condition and neither has ever required a major engine or transmission repair. This doesn't surprise me at all. Our 1975 Ford was traded (for another Ford) at 325,000 miles. It had required less than $500 in repairs in the many years we owned it.

Oh, and for those "well-built, reliable" Japanese cars? Well, in reviewing all the ads for pre-1985 cars there was not ONE Japanese car listed. What does THAT say about how "reliable" they are? They are obviously all rusting in junk yards.

7th Dec 2009, 12:24

"Where does this MYTH about "shoddy workmanship of the 1970's" domestic cars come from?"

Are you kidding?

Interior and exterior panels that didn't line-up properly.

Overspray & orange peel paint of the body.

Interior screws that where not installed correctly.

Mismatched body mouldings.

I worked at domestic dealerships in the 1970's, 80's and again in this decade, and these are common examples of the "mythical" shoddy workmanship.

7th Dec 2009, 12:44

11:34

Back in the 1970's I owned an equal amount of domestics and imports - the fit and finish of all of my new domestics from the '70's were far inferior to the imports of that era.

In my opinion, there is no question that the workmanship of domestics of that era could be called "shoddy".

7th Dec 2009, 13:16

The Japanese imports of the 1970s and until the mid to late 80s were prone to rust, however from the late 80s on Japanese cars held up as well as other vehicles of the same era. You must remember that many, many, domestic makes of the 1970s were also prone to rust. (The Pintos, Vegas, Aspen & Volares for example)

7th Dec 2009, 13:56

"Where does this MYTH about "shoddy workmanship of the 1970's" domestic cars come from?"

It really isn't as much a myth as it is a sign of technology at the time. Cars were built with inferior parts back then and rusted out at two years old unless you washed them every week. I had a '76 Nova for my first car that was 6 years old and it had bungie cords and coat hangers holding the radiator in because it was so rusted out. The doors also didn't work on it and I had another bungie cord holding the passenger door shut. The drivers door was stuck permanently so doing the old Dukes of Hazzard was my way in and out! This all on a 6 year old car. Look at any 2003 car today and it should have little or no rust on it, never mind rotting out anywhere.

I will say that it ran unbelievably well though, other than the 3-speed on the column sticking between gears every once in awhile and the clutch tanking while I owned it. I was young and abusive though, and more than likely burned that one up myself. I did overheat it until it stopped running once though (the radiator swung into the fan!), and I waited until it cooled, poured water in the radiator, and it started right up and ran just as good as before it overheated!

7th Dec 2009, 15:28

Excellent point indeed!! In the 80's people who didn't know any better (just as today) threw a screaming fit about the U.S. government "bailing out" (i.e. guaranteeing LOANS) to keep Chrysler in business. It WORKED and Chrysler repaid EVERY CENT of those loans. Tens of thousands of jobs were saved and Chrysler went on to build some of the best cars in the world. Now GM is ALREADY repaying the LOANS (NOT gifts) the government made to them. Their sales are booming (beating Toyota even) and they offer a REAL warranty on their products.

On the other hand, the U.S. (in other words US TAXPAYERS) have given Japanese companies MORE in GIFTS that will NEVER BE REPAID than the LOANS made to GM and Chrysler. Seems sort of one-sided to me.