3rd Feb 2009, 09:40

"bought a 1999 S-10 pickup. This is GM's last chance to make me a domestic consumer again, otherwise I'm done with them all. The build quality of the 1999 seems much better than previous models but we'll just have to see if that means anything."

Yikes!! I hope this truck does well for you but... the S-10 has one of the single worst repair records for any automobile. Check out CR or anyone who has long term studies. Just so you know, I'm neither a blind domestic or blind foreign fan. I'll buy either. Trouble here is that you happened to hit upon the single most trouble-prone domestic that has been manufactured in the last decade. I have the 07 buying guide open here. They don't have data for 99 but they do have data for 98. It was much worse than average in the following areas:

Engine

Cooling

Transmission

Drive system

Fuel

Ignition

Electrical

A/C

Suspension

Brakes

Paint/Trim

Body integrity

Body hardware

The only areas in which it was rated as average or better were power equipment and exhaust. Recent Silverados have been rated as average or above average. Malibus are looking to be above average. Something like 90%+ of Fords are average or better.

I understand your point that ANY domestic should be able to serve as a representative ---- if they are any good, but that's not even true of the Japanese companies. If you bought a Titan, you may think that all Japanese vehicles are no good. This is also the case with the 07 Tundra, 07 Camry, any year Armada, and some of the Honda Odysseys with their transmission and cooling troubles. No matter who you buy from, the vehicle may not be representative of the products of an entire region. Treating a '99 S-10 like a reasonable sample is like saying that Pee-Wee Herman was a good representative of manhood. I honestly hope that your truck outperforms the average. Best of luck to you.

3rd Feb 2009, 11:14

We've owned so many domestic vehicles over the years that were rated "Worse than average" or "much worse than average" that we just laugh about it. When we used to buy used cars we'd choose from the "much worse than average" models because they sold for thousands less. In spite of the (obviously bogus) "much worse than average" rating, not a single one of our domestics (new or used) EVER had a major problem, and none of the indicated "problem areas" (as listed in comment 09:40) EVER proved to be a problem.

We DO pay attention to CR ratings (that's why we bought a Ford) because any time an AMERICAN car gets a decent rating from CR, it has to be built by angels and personally blessed by God. Japanese cars have always gotten a free pass from them.

3rd Feb 2009, 13:39

Too bad that I don't purchase a vehicle anticipating a crash. Perhaps you should look at the data over the last few years on an Accord, not too bad. However, look at the risk for a fire if a Crown Vic/Grand Marquis is in a crash, frankly, I wouldn't want to take a risk just "wondering" if it may happen to me. Crown Vic/Grand Marquis is about to be discontinued because they are outdated design-wise and don't even offer curtain airbags, showing their age. I'll stick with a Honda and say screw Ford.

3rd Feb 2009, 13:46

"If you bought a Titan, you may think that all Japanese vehicles are no good. This is also the case with the 07 Tundra, 07 Camry, any year Armada, and some of the Honda Odysseys with their transmission and cooling troubles."

None of these vehicles mentioned with the exception of the Camry are true Japanese vehicles. That's the problem with advertising, many people don't know which Japanese vehicles are truly Japanese. I wouldn't buy any of the vehicles you mentioned with the exception of the Camry with a 'J' in the VIN. I hope I have one of the better than average vehicles too because if I don't, I will NOT be buying a domestic vehicle again.

3rd Feb 2009, 14:13

To 13:49:

Right on! I've been promoting CR data on here, but haven't talked much about the rest of the publication. I'm very cautious about publications that test drive cars, and then compare them to some idea of the "perfect vehicle" in their collective imagination.

For example, "Car and Driver" seems to rate every car on how close it comes to the BMW M3. But every vehicle isn't designed with sporting intentions. Not only that, but most customers are looking for something else. So... does C&D downgrade a Freightliner for its acceleration times? I ask that to demonstrate the relative absurdity of looking at all vehicles through one lens.

Likewise CR seems to have some kind of idea of perfection as well. For example, they always say that the Jeep Wrangler is too rough, unrefined, and "too true to its roots". But they say that without looking to what the manufacturer's INTENT and MARKET was. Speak to a Jeeper, and the rough ride, the lack of refinement, and retro tendencies are EXACTLY what they want (many even say that the new ones are TOO refined).

Likewise a couple of years ago they said that the Impala SS spun its wheels too easily!! Ummm... that's because it has power. Some buyers are looking for that.

I suspect that CR's ideal is something like a Honda Fit or a hybrid of some kind. Anything that has a mission very far afield of that is viewed through a critical lens.

What they should be doing is determining what the intended purpose of the vehicle is, and rating it on how well they believe it achieves that mission.

I don't mean to be overly critical of "Consumer Reports". They are just making the same mistake that many publications do. Indeed, it's me who has been promoting their data here on the forum. But their vehicle reviews are different than their repair data. The repair data is just compiled from owners. Their vehicle reviews are done in-house and are based on test drives. The repair data section should be taken very seriously. The vehicle review should be seen as more like an opinion.

Your own test drives should tell you whether or not the vehicle suits your needs. No magazine can do that for you as many here have pointed out. But pay attention to CR's reliability ratings... because it's THAT area where they shine. There isn't another reporting agency that has the credibility and large-scale information along with the method that breaks the data down into usable categories. I'm a member of Truedelta.com as well, but CR still remains special because of the sample sizes and data handling involved. It's a class act. But the ultimate determination of which vehicle best suits your needs is your decision. It's just best if that decision is an informed one.