16th Jun 2007, 06:44

What are you talking about, a type R is not even average when not in the VTEC, you have to stay in that zone all the time if you want any kind of performance. When not in VTEC its in fuel economy mode, slow. They are fast when in VTEC, but a 330ci is more than a match and an M would ease past.

18th Jun 2007, 09:37

When driving the CTR below 5K revs its a lot quicker than your average 2.0, above 5K it's a beast and would keep up with just about anything, by the way it would be a lot quicker than a 330 around a track, the m3 is just in a different league.

20th Jun 2007, 03:19

Vtec is pure fun, the sound is awesome.

20th Jun 2007, 05:48

Vw could no way get 200bhp from a 2.0 NA, forget 200 honda can get 240bhp out of a 2.0 litre engine, other car manufacturers have tried copying the vtec engine, but have failed, they can't produce the same amount of power, eg fords zetec.

20th Jun 2007, 11:13

There are different ways to get 200 hp from a 2.0 engine, high lift cams with high revs is one, a turbo is another. Lots of people prefer the turbo and vice versa. Personally I like the feel of 250 lb ft of torque at 3500 RPM pushing me back in the seat in my turbo.

20th Nov 2007, 16:19

All fair points, but just a few things to think about guys:

- Don't compare apples and oranges, hot hatches are very different to bigger engined, much more expensive luxury saloons. Of course the M3 is going to be faster, it's got an extra 1200cc, 2 extra cylinders and 8 more valves, and costs over three times as much. The CTR is an awesome hatch for the money and relatively small displacement.

- Turbo's have more torque and sometimes more power, but are ultimately less reliable as with any type of forced induction (greater wear and tear on internals), not as efficient with fuel and generally speaking they don't take much technology to produce power. iVTEC on the other hand solely relies on all motor, highly efficient flow and combustion, ultra reliable technical engineering to produce frankly amazing power output from small engines.

And you can still turbocharge VTECs! Just look at how many enthusiasts across the world (USA, Europe and Asia) have successfully turbocharged/supercharged otherwise stock Honda VTEC engines for very high output road cars. A CTR with a stock engine and a low boost (7-8psi turbo / supercharger) setup on average produces 300bhp/200lbs torque. In a lightweight hatch with short ratio gears, not many road cars can keep up.

I am not a ricer, or boy racer... I don't stick large fibreglass bodykits on my car, nor do I like led/neon lights. I appreciate engine technology and give credit where it's due. And I think Honda deserves some respect for doing what a lot of other car manufacturers can't. Just browse through reviews written by people like you and me, end users, on this site and you will see time and time again the Japanese engined cars have proven to be much more reliable and better engineered that their European and American equivalents.

30th Nov 2007, 12:44

In real life, it is exactly the same as the 330 performance-wise, although the BMW sure handles better and is nicer. Hence, I'm saving up for one.

I'm getting rid of my R for 3 reasons:

1. The depreciation is awful! They are worth nothing anymore!

2. They have a following of big exhaust, loud stereo, Max Power chaps! I don't mean to offend, but my brother was run off the road by no less than 8 R's that were on their way to B'mouth for a Civic meet! I'm sure this isn't the same for everyone, but if you live in Dorset, you will agree! Me and my girlfriend play a game where we try spot a Civic driver without a baseball cap on.

And 3.I was pulled over during a crackdown on drink driving (I wasn't drunk, by the way) and the traffic cop said that I would be targeted as a Type R driver! He said that the majority of drivers of the Type R are dangerous show offs and they are told to look out for them! When I said I was offended, he showed me his computer thing, and showed me that of 11 car-related incidents (crashes; speeding; dangerous driving; public disturbance) which had occurred during that weekend, 7 of the 11 had been Type R-related! I STRESS I don't WANT TO OFFEND, THESE ARE NOT MY WORDS! This I what I was told by the traffic cop! A traffic cop who told me I was lucky he was in a good mood, because he could have given me a 3 point deduction and a fine for having an empty window washer tank! (I can't believe that is a crime!)

1st Dec 2007, 04:47

There is more stress on a VTEC at 7000 RPM than on a turbo at 4000 RPM, but both types are made for a purpose, so no use arguing that. But if you are talking about technology, why is it bad to have a more simple turbo set up producing high power and more torque at the same time? And if you say its less technology, then its less to go wrong. I think VTEC engines work much harder for the same power and less torque. Turbo engines have come a long way anyway. The first 2.0 turbos, for example, the Saab 99 turbo only produced 145 bhp. Then you have the BMW 2002 that produced only 170 bhp. Now you have 2.0 turbo Subaru and EVOs with 320 bhp from the dealers, with more extreme factory models producing over 400 bhp from dealers. Then there is the hardcore tuning!

1st Dec 2007, 08:35

All of them will blow up way before a VTEC engine! Yes, I agree turbos are now more reliable than they used to be, but they will never exceed Honda VTEC reliability. Not only that, but turbo engines need more care and servicing. An EVO fq model needs servicing every 4000 miles to keep it running properly. Honda VTEC engines are designed to run at 8000rpm+ for extended lengths of time. Yes, those revs on a normal engine would be disastrous, but because the VTEC lumps are over-engineered, they last for several hundred thousand miles (something a turbo engine can't usually do without needing a rebuild or 2).

1st Dec 2007, 08:55

Yes, they are designed to run at 8000 rpm, but try driving like that consistently; it will not last several hundred thousand miles. No car will last long (driven) on the limit all the time.

1st Dec 2007, 10:03

No one on the planet can sit their car at 8000rpm all day, every day, until they clock up several hundred thousand miles. But thrashing a Honda V-tec engine every day up to its redline, again and again and again is normal driving for anyone that owns a Type R. As long as you let it warm up first, and keep the oil topped up and serviced, it WILL do several hundred thousand miles as has been proven time and time again. Just count the number of youths in their body-kitted, big-wheeled, big exhaust CRXs and Civics; they all seem to drive 10~15 year old cars with 200,000 miles (or more) and are still being thrashed to within an inch of their lives every night around town. Turbo cars just can't that sort of punishment without a rebuild. It is the main reason Honda win most engine reliability tests year after year; not just because they build fantastic engines, but because Honda engines don't use turbos. In a world now dominated by big Hp cars with big turbo engines, Honda are still sticking to their guns; not fitting one purely because they know that the VTEC engine might have slightly lower Hp figures than the turbo equivalent, and it will be going strong long after the turbo engine has given up the ghost.