12th Mar 2007, 08:24

"To ask such a question means you do not understand the subject under discussion."

To assume such a thing means you do not understand anything at all. I was being sarcastic to basically annoy people like you who confuse a well built engine with one that went to school=p. Remember an engine cannot be sophisticated it can be strong and precisely built, but not sophisticated.

12th Mar 2007, 16:15

Maybe the people at Honda figured that with 140 hp in the Fit that it would make it a lot harder to keep the front tires from breaking traction too often?

I've heard that with the standard tire and rim size that the front end can still get a little squirrelly if you accelerate quickly under the right circumstances. My '93 Tercel did this, but that car had 13" rims and really minimal tires; I'm not complaining about that; it made it more fun to drive, like the Fit I'm sure. Possibly 140 hp and the stock tires are a bad combination?

I'm still not giving up on Honda putting a six speed manual in this car, either. To the commenter earlier on this subject; I get the fact that you're not really going to gain anything in the way of performance, but what I'm talking about is unnecessary strain on the motor when in highway travel that could be relieved with another gear. Why buzz around at 3500 or even 3900 rpm on the freeway when another gear could make that 2800 or 3000 rpm? Either way I still want one, but I would love to see this happen.

13th Mar 2007, 07:35

The tires on the Fit are the same that are on the Civic with the 140 hp engine, so that is not an issue. They just don't want to cannibalize Civic sales.

And Honda engines are made to take tremendous amounts of strain, so a six speed is unncessary.

13th Mar 2007, 07:39

Really? Then why have I see the term appear in EVERY auto magazine I have read including Car and Driver, Autoweek, Road and Track, MotorTrend, CAR, TopGear, Evo, SportsCar Classic, and so on? Or are auto journalists not qualified to discuss engines?

Your argument holds no water.

14th Mar 2007, 11:52

I don't read any car magazines. I prefer to take what I learn from my own mechanical and driving experiences and form my own opinion because unlike you I can think for myself. Not to mention that most auto journalists have never done any mechanical work in there entire lives and just use the term sophisticated because it sounds good. Also by definition of the word, a sophisticated engine would actually be a very bad thing.

15th Mar 2007, 14:39

"Sophisticated" engines ARE a bad thing. "Sophisticated" means needlessly complicated and prone to many problems.

A domestic pushrod engine (such as Fords cast-iron 3.0 V-6) are simple, but virtually indestructible. We've put over 300,000 miles on Ford engines with no repairs.

My one and ONLY experience with Honda was a Civic that started falling apart at 40,000 miles and totally self-destructed (and was literally sold to a junk dealer) at 90,000 miles. That's why I've driven Ford and GM vehicles ever since, and saved enough money on purchase price and repairs to buy all the gas I could ever imagine needing for the rest of my life.

15th Mar 2007, 15:48

Yet another in the pattern of disinformation. It's so easy to pick these out.

First, the person swears up and down how great domestic cars are. Then, by some sheer coincidence, happens to own (no one knows why since he clearly hates foreign cars) a Civic that miraculously falls apart. Then he goes back to domestics which, of course, are 100% reliable and last for millions of miles.

Just ignore all the Civics on Craig's List with 200K and 300K miles that are selling for high dollars. No, Civics are simply awful cars and he has the proof!

Sorry, no one is buying it anymore.

15th Mar 2007, 17:04

"My one and ONLY experience with Honda was a Civic that started falling apart at 40,000 miles"

Your lucky, my interior started coming apart at about 3000 miles and it was a 2006. It has more recently been lemon lawed at about 10k miles due to multiple automatic transmission problems. Assembled in Japan too... go figure. And thank you for spoon feeding them the facts about the word sophisticated I think they needed it, but they still probably won't catch on.

15th Mar 2007, 20:19

I see you on here all the time throwing out crap like my Civic was ready for the wrecker at 40,000 miles!!! Well I do not care at all about your experience, and I think you do not clearly see what troubles are going in the auto industry because of failure of the American auto industry to build a good car.

My family had two 3.0 Ford engines, and both of them were babied and given the upmost maintenance, yet died at 200,000 and 220,000 miles respectively.

The one that had 200,000 miles cost more to maintain then it did to buy it brand new in 1987, and the 1992 that made it to 220,000 miles suffered from a cracked block and cylinder head.

I have seen better reliability from the Honda's and Toyota's in my family. We have cars in our family that have made it to 200,000 miles on nothing but oil changes and a few belts, etc.

I am only 20, and my current Honda I have had for 2 years, and have driven it 50,000 miles to 252,000 miles without a problem! I drive these cars to the ground and have had no problems.

If it helps your raving... my uncle got 406,000 miles out of his Dodge, but he drove it highway only and never over 60 miles per hour in Iowa... It may have had a Mitsu engine... I don't know.

16th Mar 2007, 10:27

So, you're saying that Dodge is far better than Toyota or Ford (not that getting 200,000+ miles from an old Ford is anything to complain about). Okay, works for me. By that logic, shouldn't you be talking about how great Dodges are, instead of extolling the virtues of Toyota? I've got over 250,000 miles on my Dodge, so it would be hard to convince me that they aren't a great car.

16th Mar 2007, 13:20

Proof is this... The self proclaimed "Big 3" are almost non existent with a rapid loss in sales, to the point that 2 of them may be gone soon. Honda and Toyota continue to build plants in North America... and do something unionized labor can't even do, hire Americans.

Oh, I love the sophistication arguments, too. Those that blow up their Civics should know that they do require maintenance, but not as much as the US counterparts. Sounds like reading a manual or two and maybe an automotive journal would have people know about trends in the industry... Lack of understanding sophistication equals ignorance on technology's advances in today's vehicles... in safety, fuel economy, handling, and even comfort. Old tech wasn't.. The day of long stroke, gas guzzling, inefficiency is gone. Long live technology.

16th Mar 2007, 16:58

13:10 thank you!

As far as "sophisticated engines" there was a report on TV about the huge lack of mechanics in America and how many companies are promoting being a mechanic as a career. Anyway, a QUALIFIED mechanic needs upwards of THREE years to achieve proper certification, something that would be ridiculous if engines were as "simple" as the people here would have you believe.

Just the SOPHISTICATED electronics required for OBDII should be enough to convince even the most uninformed that the Honda Fit and the 1975 Buick Century are lightyears apart as far as engines.