6th Dec 2009, 14:19
'90% of friends and neighbors out of work'... To say such a thing makes it very difficult to take you seriously. The U.S.A. does not live by cars alone.
Have you not heard of the Global Economy and the NYSE, AMEX, NASDAQ, AAPL, DELL, HP, MSFT, John Deere, Harley Davidson and countless other companies and industries known thru-out the world, that originated in the U.S.A.? Well wake up and smell the Starbucks, but please, stop drinking the Kool-Aid!
FACT is, although the U.S.A. had a head start with their car industry, they blew it, for many reasons.
'20 yr. old myth'... LOL... FACTS, say otherwise. The world is much larger than within the U.S. borders. Besides, the U.S.A. could have done the same thing you say the Japanese did with advertising dollars... oh yeah, they did... in the U.S.A.
I guess that the myth was really about the cars made in America though, because apparently most of the world now regards the U.S. auto industry as broken by bad management and inferior products.
No one should wrap themself in the flag to defend what has become a losing cause. Bad business is not good for anyone, as has been proven clearly this year thru-out the world.
'Perhaps if there are more like him around, then when his kids grow up the U.S. will still have a few job options besides Wendy's and Burger King'.
Ah yes, the 'junk' that passes for food in the U.S.A. Those companies and others like them have only contributed to bad health for many, but, it equals big profits for their boards of directors.
The pattern has emerged for the world to see and know... money or the love of money has been the guiding force in the U.S.A. and the end result is a negative image.
Just like 'junk-food', sadly the cars have been given the same label and that belief did not come from foreigners, but from citizens of the U.S.A. who have owned or more often been owned by an American made automobile.
6th Dec 2009, 16:08
"U.S. actually has given MORE "bail-out" money (tax breaks, free land, etc.) to JAPANESE auto companies than to GM."
That is a falsehood right there. Tax breaks and land (while they were given) is not bail out money. And while the Fusion is the top rated car right now, I find it laughable that the only thing Ford can come up with the beats out the Japanese is a Mexican-built, JAPANESE-BASED vehicle. And even with the Fusion holding onto number 1, the Asian brands still hold onto the Top 5 with their entire line-ups, not just one vehicle.
And the 20 year-old "myth" is by no means a myth. For years the Japanese held the top spots in EVERYTHING. Consumer Reports, J.D. Power and all of them had them rated as the best vehicles you can buy. They have stumbled as of right now for sure, they will be there for a while, a short time in which the domestics can briefly hold the spot-light.
The next reliability kings are going to be the Koreans, Hyundai is building up in leaps and bounds. After sales drop enough, the Japanese will reign in the quality once again. However, for the domestics, it's only a matter of time until they become comfortable enough to once again build the poor quality, unreliable vehicles of old.
6th Dec 2009, 18:19
And as far as the Camry or any foreign trash is concerned, on the basis of reliability my 95' Grand Marquis and 98' Crown Victoria WILL BE MORE RELIABLE THAN ANYTHING FOREIGN! The only foreign car that can hold a candle to the Crown Vic's, Caprices, Delta 88's etc. for reliability, is the old Mercedes 300d's!
Your support for the Camry is sickening, as less and less people fall for the worthless myth that the flimsy Camry and other Japanese junk is "so wonderful"! And if Toyota does fail, I hope they never bounce back!
7th Dec 2009, 08:44
Again a flawed argument. You still continue to defend the outsourcing of Ford and GM. The point is, and I guess you never really understood this, this is the ONLY way they can survive. Sad really. They can only survive by taking jobs from U.S. workers. Funny how you are okay with Ford and GM using low wages and offering no benefits, but when Honda does it, it is a crime.
Yes, Toyota has had some quality issues. They took lessons from GM and Ford on cutting corners. It is all about profits. They have revised most of the problems they had made in their line now. The floor mat recall is big yes, but it's not like any other company has never had huge recalls. When you sell more cars than everyone else, then you tend to have bigger problems when there is a design error.
I get tired of reading that GM and FORD are the two highest rated cars on the planet. The TOP FIVE BRANDS ARE ASIAN. PERIOD!! END OF STORY!! This is factual and not based on one car in a lineup or a small division of one of their companies. These are based on ACROSS THE WHOLE LINE QUALITY. Seriously, I drive a Ford so I wish that was true, but once again you are basing your claims on flimsy evidence and looking at things from a very skewed perspective that makes your argument look better. You are good at that really. You should be a politician.
It is also very sad that Ford builds the Fusion in Mexico, creating "0" jobs here in the U.S. and you are okay with it and say that no matter where they are built, the profits go to the U.S. company. Of course the profits go back to Ford, but how does that help the average auto worker who is out of work because a Mexican is doing their job? What happens when Ford decides to outsource all of their manufacturing jobs over the next few years because it is cheaper, and based on the Fusion you get better quality cars in foreign plants? I suppose they could close every last factory and lay off every last worker in the U.S. and this still wouldn't affect you numbers?
Here is your line again... "Buying a domestic vehicle (REGARDLESS OF WHERE IT IS ASSEMBLED) HELPS 90% of those in the U.S. auto-related jobs...PERIOD." You should add "for now" on the end of that. It is physically impossible for this to be true. Say 100% of their line is manufactured outside the U.S. According to you this STILL won't be a detriment to the U.S. auto worker. So NO ONE has a job here and this doesn't affect the U.S. auto worker?? Hmmmm, that just doesn't make any sense. Oh, you think that'll never happen? Yeah, keep telling yourself that.
6th Dec 2009, 10:52
1) Stating the FACTS of Toyota's massive engine problems and the largest recalls in the history of the automobile is NOT "unprofessional", or "spreading falsehoods". Neither is pointing out Honda/Acura's massive transmission problems. It is simply stating hard, cold FACTS. Toyota reliability issues were so bad that Consumer Reports dropped the "recommended" status of the Camry and Tundra in 2007. Hardly a mark of "superior quality".
2) It is OBVIOUS the commenter is not an economist. If they were, they would be aware that regardless of WHERE cars are built, the primary economic benefit goes to the country in which the company is owned. Import buyers try to salve their guilty consciences by screaming "Ford builds Fusions in MEXICO!". It has been shown and stated repeatedly (though no one apparently READS it) that Ford's outsourcing of the Fusion SAVED more U.S. jobs than the total number of Mexican employees by keeping Ford in a more stable financial situation. The U.S. actually has given MORE "bail-out" money (tax breaks, free land, etc.) to JAPANESE auto companies than to GM. Yes, Japanese companies employ a handful of people here. But all the profits, research and development salaries and tax benefits go to JAPAN.
3) Two plus two DOES equal Four, so why is it so difficult for import buyers to accept that NINETY PERCENT is HIGHER than TEN PERCENT??? Buying a domestic vehicle (REGARDLESS OF WHERE IT IS ASSEMBLED) HELPS 90% of those in the U.S. auto-related jobs...PERIOD. Buying a car built by a company based in another country helps TEN PERCENT. If we can so easily see that 2 + 2 equals 4, why is it so hard to see that 90 is a bigger number than 10??
4) It gets VERY tiresome reading these same "Japanese cars are more reliable" myths over and over. The two HIGHEST RATED CARS ON THE PLANET ARE FORD AND GM!! ALL current cars built and/or sold in the U.S. will easily last as long as anyone cares to drive them, so that is no longer a consideration in buying a car. What it all boils down to is simply this: Do you want to put 90% of your friends and neighbors out of work so you can cater to a 20-year-old myth perpetrated by billions in Japanese advertising dollars?
I heartily endorse the young Ford owner's loyalty to his own country. Perhaps if there are more like him around, then when his kids grow up the U.S. will still have a few job options besides Wendy's and Burger King.