24th Oct 2017, 20:42

Many cars have design faults (or common problems, or parts quality problems from suppliers), which no amount of diligent maintenance will save you from. Even then, it isn't inevitable that a car of that type will definitely fail. US GM cars for quite sometime have been rated by Consumer Reports "much worse than average" for reliability, yet people still buy them despite Toyota and Honda. I bought a 2001 4-cyl 3-series BMW when it was 9 years old, expecting NZ$500 (US$350) repairs every 6 months (wear and tear + odd repairs), but after 7 years so far and putting on 115K km, the only problem was a stretched timing chain (supplier fault for many European cars of the time). Else, two coils and the original 13-year old BMW battery. BMWs are NOT supposed to be that dependable - I would never dismiss a comment from a BMW owner who's had problems - but somehow mine has lasted, still with the original water pump, thermostat and clutch. I see many even older ones, some worse for wear, but still running - though they are often the simpler 3-series cars, never the more complex models. That's why people keep buying them - people aren't so stupid to keep buying a brand that has stung them badly. Maybe they weren't stung at all, or not yet.

25th Oct 2017, 15:36

That’s too broad based. People buy many vehicles with specific purposes in mind. Moderate about town, family transport, or off road or performance. I know some people that buy vehicles known to have concerns in order to drive high performing road/track use brands. Buying cars with super chargers, twin turbos etc will obviously require additional maintenance over time. Or we would all be driving strictly older Honda Accords for less dealership visits. People are for the most part pretty aware of this through automotive annual journalism reports etc. Cars cannot be perfect in all areas of their intended usage. I know my daily driver is not setting the world on fire with excitement. It gets me there with above average reliability. But my others make up for it with the fun factor and highly satisfying driving experience. I know it will cost more to buy up front, require additional maintenance, fuel costs as well as insurance. It’s a given. We barely buy a new car without immediately thinking of the next one. That may go against the grain of strictly lowest cost to own mentality. You can spend your savings elsewhere.

25th Oct 2017, 17:43

65 MPG? No way unless you drive at 50mph. Here's the real figures:

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/realmpg/mercedes-benz/e-class-w212-2009/e220-cdi

Owners usually get 50 MPG (UK units).

http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/index.php?threads/c220-cdi-tank-size-and-range.122923/

25th Oct 2017, 20:55

Gentlemen, I tend to agree with all that's said so far in the last couple of posts. I've seen comment sections on here go on forever when talking about general reliability, but a little research and my own experience of cars old and new over the last 20 years has taught me a few things I think we can all agree on; if you want a perfect car that you absolutely have to depend on, buy a brand new one, and any problems are dealt with under warranty and a courtesy car is usually offered.

As for older used cars it's anyone's guess. Generally a looked after car (every oil and belt change on time, and driven carefully) will easily last in excess of a decade and many miles past the infamous 100,000 mark. Manufacturer does not seen to matter I have found; Ford, GM, have an average image, but are equally reliable to BMW and Mercedes who are apparently "upmarket". I've had lots of cars from the afore mentioned manufacturers and ran them to many miles with no major issues other than wear and tear, as I think someone already mentioned you should expect.

Some cars are definitely better than others, but people are often talking about a car's overall performance, ability and features rather than longevity in this case.

26th Oct 2017, 09:07

Buying brand new isn’t a guarantee of a trouble free car. I have been driving for 48 years. We have owned many cars over those years. Easily more than average. And although we opt more for performance, many were disposable daily drivers. Always well maintained.

Point being, is in spite of excellent care, many were no stranger for frequent service visits. Warranty covers a lot of it in the beginning. But interpretation of a warranty isn’t always in the consumers favor. You can still spend not only what the vehicle cost new, but non warranty repairs.

I owned 2 Mercedes and recall a 5k air conditioner in one. And numerous other ridiculous expenses. When you are making a $1100 month car payment as an example, are you really saving having a warranty in which not all is covered? Also running back and forth to attend to warranty issues on a regular basis has unseen costs. Lost revenue leaving work to a dealer costs.

Many luxury cars are quite expensive to own well and beyond their purchase price. Performance versions that need tires at 20,000 miles with softer compounds as an examples. Sensor and electrical issues. I had one that had electric seats that stuck forward and other similar glitches. My friend had a 3k repair in his Range Rover - an electric sunroof that failed. That isn’t a performance related out of pocket repair. Cars are mechanical and they do have issues. I am not complaining really as you shouldn’t buy certain ones without this expectation. You can be even more inconvenienced with a new car at times than an older car going back in for service. Who wants to drive a loaner car when you want yours to drive that’s better.

26th Oct 2017, 21:44

Some very good points. At the end of it all though, I think the problem in regard to measuring a car's reliability in the long run can vary from person to person; they will always base it on their own anecdotal experiences, which is understandable. But I think I read somewhere ages ago that the average car on the road is 7 years old. And the average car's life is 12 years old with about 150,000 miles on it before it is scrapped. Obviously we need people buying new cars to begin with, to get them on the market, and most people end up buying used anyway, at least for their own private cars.

Reviews on here I find are generally good, and are a lot better than most car review sites out there, and certainly reflect most people's experiences with certain cars. I just hate the extreme ends of some reviews and comments, like snobs not acknowledging that used cars have value. I know people that won't drive anything over a year old. They pay for it, and then some, as you mentioned new cars are expensive initially. Fair enough if that's what they want, but I still believe used cars offer more value in the long run, so long as you keep some cash aside for any disasters and do your research. On the other extreme end of course there are some silly claims that people get 20 years and 200,000 miles without a repair, I think anyone with common sense reading a review like that can take it with a pinch of salt.