5th Aug 2019, 12:57

Well said. Mid 2000 era cars are rubbish in my opinion. It's like they knew the late 2000's recession was coming, and cost cut accordingly.

This will back fire on them however. A brand's name is damaged beyond measure through word of mouth with this type of thing. A lot of people will remember getting reliability and longevity out of older cars, (80s, 90s) but in more recent years some cars have quickly become throw away like an old obsolete computer.

6th Aug 2019, 20:11

Hate to break this to you, but cars began to be designed for "throwaway" in the late 1970s, so your claim is nothing new...

7th Aug 2019, 10:59

The 70s was pretty bad for most run of the mill cars, and that might be true for some American cars, but my 1995 Toyota Camry is still going and is economical to do so; it is definitely a well designed car, not throw away. Unlike post year 2000 rubbish from a lot of manufacturers, that cost a fortune to keep going.

7th Aug 2019, 13:28

Do you speak from experience or is that your own "claim"?

7th Aug 2019, 15:42

Not saying the claim is new, just stating that there are better/worse time periods for cars' quality. It does not always rise in a steady, smooth upwards curve of newer equals better, because a lot of the time, that clearly is not the case.

7th Aug 2019, 19:10

Lots of cars had life in them but rust got them. Like Honda, Toyota, Datsun in the late 70s.

8th Aug 2019, 02:20

I agree and want to clarify... The Cobalt is on GM's Delta I platform. The G6 was on GM's Epsilon I chassis. Two totally different, but equally poorly built cars.

8th Aug 2019, 02:32

You are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT! Everything is throw-away, now! GM cars just need to get thrown away a lot SOONER than many other car brands. GM's Chevrolet is so poor at building cars, they have stopped making all but 2 car models. Toyota sells no less than 4 car models. Hyundai is selling 5 car models, plus 3 Genesis car models. Kia is selling 6 car models. Heck, even Audi (with all their problems) sells 11 car models. If GM could build a car that didn't turn to dust at 75k miles, they might still be selling cars in 2020!

8th Aug 2019, 12:29

Pretty sure GM will still be selling lots of cars in 2020 and for years afterward.

On the other hand, Hyundais and Kias are crap built cars and always will be, designed to appeal to people who base car buying decisions on appearance only and who think that 100K mile warranty is giving them "protection".

8th Aug 2019, 14:44

I am thinking of going back to Corvettes. Went import just for a change, no bad reason. The new mid engine 2020 C8 is already nearly sold out. I had 98 up with very good luck. Without getting a test drive the C8 has already sold many. I still have a Silverado with no issues, just like others I had just before it. I bought my mom a Malibu and she had no issues other than oil changes etc. Maybe I am a lucky one. Or maintain them very well and garage kept. I know you guys hate Corvettes as a Chevrolet comparison, so I brought up the others. They have been great so far.

8th Aug 2019, 18:28

The "bad" American cars from the 70s were the new wave of compacts that were rushed into production, looking good on paper, but not well executed at all. On the other hand, the larger V8 cars were on point with build quality. Some of the best cars we owned were full-size Buicks and Oldsmobiles from that era.

8th Aug 2019, 22:07

Actually, more recent reports are showing that people tend to keep their cars longer these days. One reason is that they've simply gotten more reliable. This has been a slowly growing trend over time.

I'm in my 40s and we had a lot of early 80s GM cars which was right when GM was experiencing some nasty quality control issues. All of the cars we owned wound up having a LOT of issues and eventually my folks bought a used Camry which ran forever.

It used to be that if you had a car that made it to say- 100,000-150,000 miles it was a miracle. Usually by that time the car was also just about worn out. I had friends in high school with mid 80s with Pontiacs, Tauruses and Chevy Celebrities. None of them made it to 100,000 miles before falling apart.

These days? Doesn't matter what brand you get (except maybe for Fiat and VW) but you're probably going to go 200-250,000 miles without a hiccup. In fact I know people with over 350,000 miles. People are now less forgiving if something breaks and at the same time engineering and materials have drastically improved.

9th Aug 2019, 13:47

I hear what you are saying and I agree - engines and transmissions are generally tougher and longer lasting. But the problem is the cost of repairs on modern cars, especially for mysterious electronic faults that only a dealer can fix, not independents.

Let's say you have a car worth only about $2000. Engine/Trans/Body are great but you may have various other repairs bills exceeding $2000. In short, it is not worth repairing, and you will likely buy another car.

Again, not saying older is better, but back in the day if I were running about in an old clunker but in general good condition, and the exhaust fell off I just laughed as I knew I could get it fixed cheap, and the rest of the car was OK. But nowadays you have to be really careful what you are buying, especially in the cheaper used range, and they can be quickly written off with very expensive repairs.

Also I am coming from a European point of view - take a look at the Euro reviews on here. The main complaint is the cost of repairs. You guys in the USA have cheaper repair rates for cars in general, so it seems easier to keep an older car over there.

9th Aug 2019, 17:35

I’d like to know the percentage of those keeping cars over 150,000 miles. There’s some heavy expense on repairs today. Like coil packs, cats, A/C failures etc. And fretting over reliable transportation to get to work or your wife out in a car like that at night. Bad weather etc. Cell or no cell, just completely vulnerable alongside the road. We would rather have a newer car(s) with a major mechanical manufacturer warranty. Some cover up to 100k miles. Plus we tire of old dated cars that need paint, interior replacements even from simply sitting and baking during the day in the tropical sun. A car cover may help, but it's a major daytime hassle when out during the week.

9th Aug 2019, 17:48

Generally speaking, here in the US modern engines and transmissions are for sure more efficient with better MPG and definitely not all that fun to repair.

But I disagree on the reliability. Let's take GM for example. The 3.6 VVT "corporate" engine used in their so called full-size cars among other models doesn't really have a great track record thus far when it comes to being reliable; not even close to the 3800 V6 that it replaced. Even in the 70s, on your everyday full-size cars, under the hood lived an ordinary, tough as nails 350 V8. This was also a time were every division excluding Cadillac built their own 350, which were all tooled different but durable. So when it comes down to these old vs. new conversations, I will say that technology, safety maintenance intervals and economy have come a long way, but reliability has gotten worse before better.