18th Jul 2011, 05:33
There's nobody in here claiming that Toyotas are 100% fault free. But it's at the same time interesting to see people jumping on any negative press that Toyota is receiving, exaggerating any problem tenfold.
Like this sludging issue, that actually was a problem for virtually all smaller engines until manufacturers specified all synthetics oils and improved oil breathing. I actually asked the independent garage we use for servicing if they've heard about this issue on the 3.0L V6, and they were clear that this only happens in some very rare examples. Usually when driven in warm states and using low grade oils. The mechanic I spoke with said they had 1 or 2 cars in with this problem, and it was mainly down to poor engine oil being used. But on sites like this, this suddenly becomes an epidemic problem of massive proportions.
18th Jul 2011, 08:39
I have had trans replaced early on... at 100,000 miles is when I have seen expensive "other" repairs start hitting on my imports. First it's the timing belts... a lot of A/C failures, heater cores, front end work, stuck sunroofs, power windows, lots of brake pads replaced up to that mark. But 100,000 miles seems to be the time to pull the wallet out. I have found that import repairs and parts are routinely more expensive. It's not a big claim to say a car has 200,000 miles on it... it's what it cost to get there with all the smaller repairs that do really add up.
Also at 150,000, your residual value on a car is really low, and at 200,000 you might as well drive it into the ground. A $2000 car is not worth replacing a 3-4k engine or trans. I can do work on basics myself. You can now buy a car lift for a garage for as little as 2 grand today. But mostly it's good for oil changes and detailing underneath. I don't drive my cars hard, and they stay inside when home.
I just bought my daughter a Mazda 3 Touring; maybe it will be a more durable car. You keep hoping the last ones were just isolated money pits. The newer they get, it's hold your breath and hope it's better.
18th Jul 2011, 10:31
So Toyota had a few models with V6's that would sludge if heavily abused. Or maybe they had a few floor mats that got stuck. Or whatever other issues. Big deal. The big 3 have all had massive amounts of recalls, some very recently affecting millions and millions of vehicles. There isn't a single manufacturer that hasn't had recalls.
It's not about the recalls. It's about overall quality. Toyota makes better products - albeit some with recalls - but overall they make a good product, and that's why they're at the top of the list of almost any consumer publication. The brand has become synonymous with reliability, and that's something all those domestic vehicle cheerleaders simply can't stand. Thus their best idea is to come onto various car publication sites and try and claim they make bad products or that they're "junk"?
All I can say is that Toyota and Honda both earned their reliable reputations fair and square, and if the Big 3 had done what they were supposed to have been doing all along, then perhaps we wouldn't be having this conversation, because there wouldn't be anything to debate.
19th Jul 2011, 08:56
It wasn't just the V6 that had the sludge problem. The 1.8 and 2.2 4 cyl. were also were prone to sludge. In the past decade, I have replaced a variety of Toyota sludged engines that were maintained on time every time. Also, the problem is not from abuse; you know that and I know that.
19th Jul 2011, 11:32
The big three recalls are also issues such as a new seat belt buckle or minor recalls. With Honda I had transmission issues, and Toyota has had many lately. I consider engine failures and trans issues, braking issues as major, not minor. I once raved about how great imports were, and my argument ended in the 90s. We bought 1 or 2 new every few years, over and over. The biggest gripe I have is you heavily maintain a car, have all issues reported on Carfax, and at trade in time the dealer has you over a barrel. The car has diminished in value due to having a couple of trans replaced or an engine, and you have 50,000 miles showing.
21st Jul 2011, 02:32
Oh, yes this is mainly down to abuse and faulty maintenance. Actually I know a thing or two about engines, and I know what makes them sludge. The sludging process is normal on all oil types, as they are broken down by heat and mechanical stress, but the problem is when the process is accelerated to the point that this is visible within prescribed oil change intervals.
The problem with sludge became more apparent in the 80s/90s with small, hard-working engines that run at higher rpms, and that run hotter with more heat dissipation than your all iron V8. Add to that oil ventilation that becomes clogged, and you have a sludging engine. The point is that Toyota is no worse than other manufacturers in this department. Actually the worst single engine type I can think about is the early Chrysler 2.7L V6 before they did several modifications to it to prevent sludging.
The best remedy to stop sludging is to use synthetic oils and to maintain your car regularly. Also the mechanics should be aware of clogged PCV valves and other clogging of the oil ventilation system. Many engines have become clogged because of people not having basic knowledge about checking this, and by adding low grade oils.
21st Jul 2011, 10:05
Here we go again with the generic "I hate imports" stuff. You can't deny that the big 3 have ALL had major recalls on engines, transmissions, and electrical systems. What's more, they've had A LOT of them over the years. So if there's an argument that somehow the few recalls Toyota and Honda have warrants a label that they're automatically bad, then that label was given the big 3 a looonnng time ago. Thus there's no argument here at all, other than what people already know: Toyota and Honda builds a better product.
18th Jul 2011, 03:00
"8 Toyotas since 2002??? No wonder they are always flawless."
Come on. These 8 cars are for the whole family, myself, my wife and the kids using them for school, college and driving to their part time jobs. And not all cars were bought new, like the cars for the kids. Combined, the 4 of us, drive about 60-70K miles a year. Typically we drive them until about 200K miles, but some even longer if there's no problems. In general, my impression of Toyotas, is that there is no problems whatsoever until 150-200K miles, and even then there's typically no fatal errors. We've never experienced blown engines or transmissions on any of our Toyotas.
This is in stark contrast to the Detroit made cars that we used to have. We had fatal failures on ALL cars before 200K miles, and some even as early as 50K miles, like a blown transmission on a Voyager that we had in the late nineties. Toyotas are simply much, much better than anything the Big Three puts out in our experience.