22nd Aug 2009, 13:38
21st Aug 2009, 22:09, you're responding to my comment.
First of all, bring on that old rhetoric all you want. I feel no guilt for owning a Honda. If you domestic lovers didn't want competition, you should've done something about it when Honda and Toyota came to the states in 60's and 70's. Honda and Toyota didn't get to the point they are at now by building crap cars. Face it, they obviously build some pretty good cars if people keep on buying them. Just read all of the reviews on here with happy Honda-Toyota customers! At least 95% of them are pleased with their vehicles!!
And the domestic car companies DO NOT build most of there models here in the states! You can try saying that the money spent when buying a domestic vehicle helps U.S. workers, but who is it really helping? It's just being put into enormous bonuses for the CEO's of the Big 3. Whereas you beloved Fusion is built in Canada, most of the Accords sold here are built in the U.S. You can help your local mechanic by buying a domestic vehicle though, he will be more than happy to fix all of its problems when it reaches the end of the line at 100,000 miles when it's warranty runs out.
22nd Aug 2009, 18:38
And here's yet another unanswered question. Where are all the 70s and early 80's Hondas and Toyotas at? It's not that long ago. Anyone else note their absence? So say at 61000 miles your engine goes, is that superior to a 100000 mile warranty? Even better if your Honda has 2-3 trans and the next prospective buyer or dealer sees it on your Car Fax, is it beneficial to you as an owner? I found it hurt me when I sold... anyone seeing multiple drivetrain issues even if some are under warranty hurts as I found. I like numbers matching cars too.
No import owner is evidently rushing to answer my 70's Honda Toyota population in the 50 states that every one in each state can watch passing by one after another after another. Where are they? I know what they look like as I owned them and sold back in the day. If you tout long term ownership, is there a cut off point that applies as I am not seeing examples.... lower production has some bearing, but there should be plenty as I saw quite a few new ones in the 70s in my city. They vanished in my area.
23rd Aug 2009, 12:31
"Just read all of the reviews on here with happy Honda-Toyota customers! At least 95% of them are pleased with their vehicles!!"
Not true. The Camry has some of the LEAST happy owners. The Ford Taurus reviews are much more positive. Don't quote non-existent statistics. Japanese car companies do that all too well themselves. Current domestics are light years ahead of anything from Japan. The two top-rated cars in long-term reliability are a Ford and a Buick. Camry was so bad Consumer Reports dropped their "recommended" status in 2008 because of reliability issues.
23rd Aug 2009, 15:44
I took your challenge. As a domestic owner I base my decisions on more than import ad hype and misguided import owner's claims. I chose the year 2003, since it is long enough ago for real problems to start cropping up with the cars reviewed. Here are the actual percentages on this site of those who are satisfied with their cars and would buy another one:
2003 Pontiac Grand Prix: 70%
2003 Ford Taurus: 81%
2003 Buick Le Sabre: 100%
2003 Honda Accord: 47%
2003 Toyota Camry: 45%
Nissan Altima: 37%
Now that clearly refutes your 95% claim, and does it with cars clearly old enough to be having problems. You'll note that even the lofty Honda Accord scores only 47% approval, while the Ford Taurus nearly DOUBLES it at 81% and the lowly (and now defunct) Pontiac Grand Prix beats it (and Camry) by a whopping 23+ % points. Nissan, long acknowledged as horribly unreliable by all knowledgeable sources rates a dismal 37%. That's less than Yugo rated in the 80's!!
23rd Aug 2009, 16:02
Since I had so much fun disproving the "95%" satisfaction claim by the (obviously uninformed) import fan, I decided to check more recent figures on this sight. I assumed (INCORRECTLY) that import figures would IMPROVE with later models because they hadn't had time to break down. BOY!! Was I ever wrong!! Here are the figures from the 2006 models (I substituted Hyundai Sonata for the Buick Le Sabre because there were no 2006 Le Sabre reviews). The "I'd buy another" figures for 2006 are as follows:
2006 Pontiac Grand Prix: 80%
2006 Ford Taurus: 60%
2006 Hyundai Sonata: 53%
2006 Honda Accord: 42%
2006 Toyota Camry : ZERO PERCENT (Don't believe? Look it up!!)
2006 Nissan Altima: 77%
The only import that was high in 2006 was the Altima, which DID make some improvements. The ZERO PERCENT for the Camry and measly 42% for the Accord says VOLUMES. The fact that the Pontiac Grand Prix scored an 80% approval rating makes sense and validates the findings on this site. It was chosen as J. D. Powers "Best large sedan" in 2007, beating out the over-rated Toyota Avalon. The fact that the Hyundai Sonata beat out both Camry and Accord shows that even cheap Korean cars are better built now.
If people are going to use this site to make attempts to promote Japanese cars, they should at least READ the reviews first. It might save some embarrassment.
21st Aug 2009, 22:09
OK, here's the argument, and it's been posted so many times I've lost count, so how you have managed to miss it is beyond me. I've cut and pasted this at least a dozen times and I'll KEEP cutting and pasting it until people finally READ IT.
The percentage of jobs in auto related fields in the U.S. provided by Japanese car companies is LESS THAN 10% of the total jobs REGARDLESS OF WHERE THE CARS ARE ASSEMBLED. It does not matter if Ford builds Fusions in Mexico or Toyota builds trucks in Mississippi. It's the PERCENTAGE that matters. 90% of U.S. workers in the auto industry in the U.S. are employed by Ford, Chrysler and GM. 10% are employed by ALL of the Japanese car companies COMBINED. When you buy a Honda that was made in the U.S. and sold in the U.S., you are still helping only TEN PERCENT of the people in this country who are in auto-related jobs. You are HURTING the other NINETY PERCENT...PERIOD. In addition, the money from sales of Japanese cars goes to JAPAN, not the U.S. except for dealers and salesman. It does NOTHING to help U.S. industry. Why people can't seem to understand this is hard to grasp. It doesn't get any simpler. Import buyers are basically using silly "It's built HERE" arguments to assuage their guilt for stabbing 90% of their neighbors in the back.
Our "Buy from American Industry" movement seems to be reaching even import owners here in SPITE of the misinformation put out by Japanese car companies and some import owners. Today I visited a local Ford dealership to see a friend who works there. He showed me three very recent trade-ins. One was a 2006 Honda Ridgeline. It was traded for a REAL truck, an Explorer Sport Trac. There was also a 2006 Acura and a 2007 Accord. Both had been traded for the higher-rated, more reliable Fusion. A spark of patriotism still burns in even a few import owners.