24th Aug 2009, 02:07
Just to inform in the 10% vs 90% discussion; you are all aware that the Japanese manufacturers makes cars somewhat different to US manufacturers? Japanese manufacturers utilize sub-contractors to a higher extent than GM/Ford/Chrysler. To get the numbers right you need to add these as well since 'foreign' sub-contractors in the US employ a lot of people.
Still it's natural that big-three employs more than Japanese manufacturers, since they overall production in US is a lot higher. This will change as 'Japanese' and other 'foreign' manufacturers gain more market share and start to produce even more cars in the US.
Further it's common knowledge that especially GM is inefficient and has a too high cost base. GM management has shown incompetence over several decades, and poor management together with the mighty UAW have managed to destroy GM. They are now lagging behind in every respect. Do you as a consumer want to support that? You want to reward being fat, incompetent and inefficient?
24th Aug 2009, 09:28
Consumer Reports? Don't even bring that up. I wouldn't trust Consumer Reports for ANY VEHICLE, ESPECIALLY A DOMESTIC. And try taking a read at ALL of the Camry reviews and then read ALL of the Taurus reviews, there are more happy Camry owners than Taurus owners.
Light years ahead of anything from Japan? You domestic owners really like to believe that don't you. Go ahead, I really don't care. I'll just smile and wave at you as you're staring under your hood along the highway as I drive by in my Civic.
And yeah, I just bought my Civic new in '08, to replace my previous vehicle, a Ford Windstar that had problems like oh say, the entire intake manifold needing to be replaced at just over 25,000 miles, and then the starter and alternator at a little over 40,000. The interior lights had a mind of their own, and would turn on and off whenever they felt like it (brought it to the dealer NUMEROUS times for that, they told me that nothing was wrong.) The transmission never shifted right, I eventually had to start downshifting manually to get up hills.
And unlike my dealer experience with Ford, the dealer I bought my Civic from was excellent. The salesman didn't force anything on me and he actually gave me $1800 for a trade in on my Ford, which is the amount that I wanted. Ford themselves weren't even going to give me $1200!! And when I brought my van to the shop for the last time, I told them I wanted to trade it in for something smaller, and they forced nearly every Focus on the lot on top of me in a pathetic attempt to get me to buy one. I ended up WALKING down the road to the Honda dealership to look at the Civics.
25th Aug 2009, 06:19
16:52 You may not have been around in the 70's perhaps. In the early 70's there were 2 factors that prompted many to try imports.
After 1970 the auto manufacturers reduced HP after tremendous mounting pressure from insurance companies. Emission controls stifled cars from the era... a 350 engine went from 360 HP in 1970 all time high down to 190 HP due to all the smog devices as well. It certainly did not increase MPG either. Insurance rates were extremely high for the era and many sold to buy more affordable models.
Another huge factor was the oil embargo forcing everyone to sit hours waiting for gas in lines, and then there became odd and even days one could buy gas. It was not the pricing of gas, relatively still cheap as it was, but you could not get it. Some stations went dry and you had to wait elsewhere if you had enough fuel in your tank to wait again. It was dreadful and boring waiting. You work all day and the last thing you want to do is stand outside your car in summer heat waiting to fill up. I could not get enough gas to drive my thirsty car.
At that time I saw many Toyotas being purchased (the Celica was very popular and a Corolla; I later had both and were commonplace) many VW Bugs 73-74 which you still see them around today. My father would fill his 73 Super Beetle and weather through on a tank of gas, while many with big V8's like myself could not get enough gas, plus the high insurance wave penalizing those with big V8's or any serial # that bumped you up into high insurance. Many of us had no points or issues, but the cars forced us to sell. People were afraid the gas situation would last and panic drove them to buy cheaper cars to run. It was a real pain waiting and waiting.
Similar to the situation a year back with high gas today, I might add without the lines waiting. Great cars were sold to buy very cheap economy cars. In hindsight I wish I could of bought a smaller house then and bought 3 or 4 of tremendous American car oppys that arose at the era.
As far as saying only 30 year old surviving commuters are totally restored or classics while no 70's early 80's Toyota are not buying it. Many people drove Olds Delta 88, Buick Le Sabres, Old Cutlass just to name a few and they are still out there. I do not know anyone doing ground up restorations on these models. Strong dependable transportation though. I know many that had 2 in their drive and spread mileage between the 2 to go to work. If you even look for early 80's, I do not see the surviving Toyotas. On here people think a 90's Toyota is a long lasting testimonial. There were 2 million Celicas sold. Maybe I look for them as I had one GT, but where are they? In the late 70's I saw lots of them and that model won awards... it was a good looking model. I had rust issues with my imports then, even my 82 280 ZX (not a cheap new car whatsoever at the time) and its quarters starting showing telltale rust. I do not know if the bodies of these 70's 80's survived the passage of time. If that's the case I should see lots of them in southern states and I am not. Sure are lots of domestics though.
27th Aug 2009, 03:02
When something is too fantastic to believe, it's usually so. That is; too fantastic. No car has ever gotten a 0% CR approval rating. The table you've been looking at has probably been wrong. CR has always rated Camry favourable.
Just to quote what CR actually says:
"YONKERS, N.Y., Jan. 4 /U.S. Newswire/ -- Consumer Reports (CR) ranked the Toyota Camry LE best overall in tests of four family sedans for the February 2005 issue.
Freshened for the 2005 model year, the Camry received a "Very Good" overall rating from Consumer Reports. The Camry has consistently been ranked among the best family sedans by Consumer Reports in recent years."
23rd Aug 2009, 16:52
There may not be very many 70's Honda's and Toyota's left, but I see plenty of 80's models. And by the way, all of the domestics from that era have had to be completely restored. And you can't tell me they've been daily drivers for more than 30 years. I'm an import fan, and personally, I wouldn't even buy Toyota's and Honda's from that era. That era was when domestics were better than imports. That's changed now, the imports have surpassed the domestics in quality since the 80's. I've seen restored 70's and 80's domestics, but none that were original. So stop with this argument over classic cars.