17th Jun 2013, 10:53

Here we go again with the "claims". Please learn a new song to sing. I, along with many others, can comment all I want on these Toyota threads, because I along with many others have had some trouble with the model I owned. A RAV-4 having problems at 40k is not a quality vehicle, and please don't tell me I got a "dud"; you have used that term a million times already too.

You can state those so-called top reliability lists a million more times, and they still mean nothing to all of the folks whom have had problems. The quality has fallen indeed, like the above comment says; look it up and live with it. 80% of the cars you listed are from the eras when they built decent cookie-cutter cars.

17th Jun 2013, 11:30

What does that prove? Of course there will be complaints from owners for ANY brand. It's totally unrealistic to expect that any man-made item would never have a fault, problem, or otherwise be not totally satisfactory to its owner, and thus the owner would naturally be inclined to write about that experience.

So Toyota has had a number of complaints registered on this site? What else is new? Every single brand on this site also has complaints about them, and it doesn't matter the vintage, model, or location.

We can hem and haw all day long about useless pieces of anecdotal information, to try and prove a point one way or another. But like mentioned before, there are already surveys out there, which via sampling from huge databases of owner experiences, clearly show a more concrete and thus accurate result. Toyota and its 2 other divisions rank in the upper 3 spots. Why this very simple to understand and comprehend fact is so difficult to understand, for those who routinely make an agenda to bash anything without an American brand stuck on the grille, is beyond me.

17th Jun 2013, 11:32

I didn't "hear" that Toyota got worse; I experienced it!

17th Jun 2013, 15:21

So let's see a list 2007 and up! Higher volume with quality drop we are emphasizing. As far as statistics, stick to specific categories, as saying one manufacturer across the board is misleading as well. And you have no right, saying we do not own a brand. I want to hear complaints, and to be wary of issues. What guarantee are you promising to a 2013 buyer when you do not own one yourself? I am sure we will see lists of extreme long lasting domestics following. I would rather read an actual review with exact make, model and matching year. Not someone driving vehicles a decade old plus.

17th Jun 2013, 16:35

I'll say it again, if you want to talk about pulling up a browser, type in these simple words "when did Toyota quality start to decline".

I'm not going to list all the direct links; that would take all day because there are so many.

17th Jun 2013, 19:37

The argument that Toyota hasn't dropped in quality is only partially true. Massive ad campaigns and billions in public relations efforts gave older Toyotas a very undeserved reputation as good cars. In truth they were never any better than Ford or GM. No one I know who has owned a Toyota over the past thirty years has had any better service out of it than we have with domestics.

The quality of newer models from Toyota is downright shoddy. My best friend paid $14,000 for a new Toyota Corolla in 2009, and just traded it for a new Ford Focus (the world's best selling car). He sold his Corolla for a whopping $3800. Not much for a four year old car, but then it wasn't much of a car either.

17th Jun 2013, 21:19

I hate to break it to you man, but US automakers are all but finished in making the types of vehicles that I like to drive. Owning a 2008 Lexus LS with the 5.0 L V8, I can easily say that it's better built, more reliable, more stylish, and better engineered than any Cadillac or Lincoln of today.

US automakers used to be something back before the 1980s, when CAFE standards all but annihilated our chances of successfully competing with foreign manufacturers, who are gutsy enough to pass whatever gas guzzler fees they encounter onto the consumer. Why US manufacturers don't do the same thing is a mystery to me, but I think the government is starting to become a Frankenstein with the over regulation of the auto industry.

18th Jun 2013, 05:20

So our family that does not like Toyotas anymore should leave? Well we did! Service after the sale keeps customers. We can also wager that people will not stay blindly loyal when there are many more brands to choose from. Looking down your list, it's mostly decade plus vehicles. The newest ones are the ones presenting the biggest issues.

18th Jun 2013, 08:35

I passed on Lexus vague handling. We are on a Tacoma review, but what Cadillac did you test? Make mine a 638 HP manual. I wouldn't mind having a new Porsche 911 in my garage with my Corvette. As you suspect, we each have different driving preferences.

I also have a GM Silverado with performance subtle mods. It's still a pickup, no matter what is done. It is difficult to adjust going from a great handling car to a truck. I am sure you have the same with a smaller Tacoma. You buy trucks for the bed. Not a luxury sedan comparison, any more than the vehicles I mentioned as well.

18th Jun 2013, 13:16

So far none of those clearly against Toyota have been able to address the fact that Toyota's 3 brands are still at the first 3 spots in terms of reliability from the latest surveys. That is basically the end of the argument. Period.

Oh - and I see we still have some of these very vague stories of friends of friends of friends who bought a Toyota and... and why it plum fell apart the second it drove off the parking lot.

Uh-huh...

18th Jun 2013, 16:47

The point of the comment was that the older Toyota reviews on this here website are far better than the reviews from about 1998 and beyond.

18th Jun 2013, 23:02

I'm perplexed by your reasoning. Were you involved in the engineering process of both a Cadillac and a Lexus? Were you present at the factory when they were built and went through quality control? Have you done a survey on the styling of each car? How can you know Cadillac is unreliable when you have probably never even driven one, let alone owned one.

Or is it that Lexus is better just because you think it is? Toyota spends millions on advertising for a reason.

19th Jun 2013, 08:54

The best surveys are within your own home. If you are older and have not just bought one vehicle personally, you know the track record first hand.

I see reliability reviews too such as this one http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2007/10/toyota-reliabil.html

Personally I now would only buy a replacement Toyota that is quite a bit older with very low mileage. Not a brand new one. I do not know how that can be interpreted at being biased.

Lastly, as far as the Lexus comment goes, who buys them? I suspect most of middle class America in 2013 will find a 2013 Lexus too costly. Same with many of the new Cadillacs. This is a Tacoma review; not known as an extravagant vehicle to buy new or used. My opinion is that this one specific vehicle new may be a bit more reliable than other Toyota models offered new today. Perhaps a slower production line than the compacts?

If you have concerns with recent ongoing issues (the largest reported ever), then look around. It doesn't have to be a Toyota or even a Honda. I like the new Mazdas personally as far as imports go today. I hope I am not considered biased on imports, but suspect I will be, as it's not a new Toyota again.