27th Aug 2007, 14:14
When only 1/7th of the sales last year were Tundra it shows there is a greater market for F Series... many of us cannot use one or a F150 even. Fortunately the commitment that Ford has in place with an extensive lineup shows they are very committed to us that cannot use a Tundra or a Ford F 150. I have yet to here how the aluminum engines exceeed the hour/mileage life of diesel engines. I think Ford is a lot better.
27th Aug 2007, 17:00
6:06 said: "Well, there's no comparison there. One's a Ford, so it loses automatically."
Uh...Why?
I must've overlooked the information backing up this claim...
27th Aug 2007, 17:27
Hahaha. Sorry, but that comment just cracks me up! 'One's a Ford so it loses automatically.' There's a Toyota lover comment to behold! NO FACTS, NO PROOF, just stupid bias coming from somewhere other than his/her mouth. I think you've got it backwards; I've seen at least 5 comments stating that cast iron engine blocks are superior to aluminum. They are all factual and true, but you just say "oh look it up in a book!"
Why? Because you don't have a clue what you're talking about! You've got no factual basis, just rants and raves. Give it up already...
27th Aug 2007, 19:33
17:27 Well, once again, you are completely wrong. 'No facts..blah, blah'... there are about 1000 comments on this site giving the mechanical facts behind it. I don't feel the need to restate them.
27th Aug 2007, 19:36
Here's a fact for you: I'd be embarrassed to drive a Ford, and wouldn't trade my much better made Tacoma for six new Fords. That's a fact.
28th Aug 2007, 07:24
Good comment 18:54, and thanks for your objectiveness 19:51 -your point is well taken. I take it you prefer Toyota's, but are also respectful of other people's views. That is appreciated.
I would add to the point 18:54 correctly mentions about aluminum engines requiring cast iron cylinder sleeves because aluminum is simply not strong enough to handle that duty by itself, that having to put in sleeves creates a very trouble prone setup. The reason for this is because the aluminum and and cast iron have different thermal rates of expansion, and the cylinder sleeve and block junction where this is an issue, occur at a very vulnerable spot in the engine, right at the top of the cylinder where the head and the block meet. Either over time, or all at once in an overheating situation, the stress of the different expansion rates between metals at that critical point will compromise the integrity coolant seal between the head and engine, and/or in extreme circumstances the head itself. Any way you look at it, an aluminum engines is a time bomb, that may run fine up until a point, but then very suddenly develop serious irreparable problems. In any event, there is just no way aluminum engines are suited to doing serious work.
People are free to disagree with me, but I think there is no way it can be argued that an aluminum engine is more durable than a cast iron engine. In terms of mileage, I have seen as many more cast iron engines make it to very high mileages than I have aluminum engines, so that argument is also moot in my opinion. But that also stands to reason because of another fact that I have not seen mentioned yet, iron holds and distributes lubrication a lot better than aluminum. So not only is it stronger, but the mechanism by which wear is prevented is also more efficient. To me, the fact that cast iron is better than aluminum is undeniable.
Just my thoughts...
Best regards.
28th Aug 2007, 10:50
So far, the ONLY argument made against Toyotas has been that they use aluminum engines. The one and only technical comparison made has been whether an engine overheats and how both metals react and subsequently cause engine damage as a result.
As mentioned, if your powertrain is properly maintained and engineered, overheating shouldn't be part of a planned cycle of events in the life of your car. I grew up in "Da' South" where it gets BLAZING hot. We had a few little Toyotas that we beat to death hauling lumber scraps, railroad ties, trailers, and whatever else we had to haul with them. Despite the intense heat and probably hauling way more than they were intended to, we never overheated a single engine. That's not to say we really took great care of them either.
The statement about" Toyota knows that nobody uses their trucks for work" is kind of ignorant. Look at it this way: The only parts of the globe that buys things like F-150's and other large domestic trucks is North America- in particular, Canada, the US, and some in Mexico. Have you ever watched a nature program being filmed in Sudan, South Africa, or some other desolate, inhospitable, hot place? Why they're using Toyota Land Cruisers. Just try and take a F-150 or an Explorer for that matter out in the African bush. Does it strike anyone as ironic that while many U.S. truck drivers assume that the ONLY way they can get work done is with a BIG honkin' truck, the MAJORITY of the globe uses smaller trucks? We have some of the best freeways in the world. Many of these countries using Japanese trucks to do " real" work have absolute poor road conditions. The argument that Toyota only makes make-believe trucks for pleasure is ridiculous. Perhaps it is Americans who are ignorant enough to think that they really need a Ford f-250 Dually with heated seats to haul a cement mixer. Yeah right.
Now you can keep right on coming back and saying." b-b-but Cast iron will not warp" all day long. But the truth of the matter is that a vast majority of Toyota trucks, used for " real" work will have absolutely no problems using that block nor will they likely overheat.
27th Aug 2007, 12:36
In regards to the classic, I own a 53' Mercury Montclair. I own it because I like the way it looks. Is it high quality? Not really- I have to keep it carefully tuned and in near-perfect mechanical condition. The carburetor requires constant attention regarding the climate. In winter- it has to be adjusted. In summer- same thing.
What's interesting about the car is that the SAME engine which currently resides in it is a 45 year old design that was used well into the 90's. The only difference is that accessories were added later on. I find it absolutely amazing that Ford would use an engine for decades. In my opinion, this is why many domestic manufacturers had to play a major catch-up game to some of the import brands simply because for decades, the sheetmetal changed, but under the hood they were powered with antiquated machinery.
Is it a fun car to drive? Yes. Is it reliable? I guess for a 50+ year old car, ya. But I'd be hard-pressed to compare the old-fashioned cast iron engine in this thing to a modern lightweight aluminum powerplant.
Me and my family grew up with Fords. My grandad, uncle, and dad ONLY bought them for generations. It was only after having 3 Fords in a row that had ridiculous problems that we bought a Toyota years ago, and were amazed that it ran for 12 years without a problem.
I will say that domestics have come a very long way since the 80's and 90's. But as mentioned, they're more foreign than domestic anyhow. I have yet to see a consumer report that shows older domestic cars lasting as long as many import brands. Going to work in the morning, you'd be hard-pressed to see a 15~20 year old Chevrolet, yet you'll see scads of beater Hondas from the 80's still running just fine. When I think of quality, I think of a car lasting for decades without any noticeable problems, which is something I don't fully believe domestics can do with great regularity yet. If they did, I think they would offer better value for what you pay. I particularly like the new Chevrolet Silverado. But do I trust it to run 200k without a hitch? Not yet.
I fully believe that GM and Ford will eventually get it right. Most of their problem is that they suffer from brand perception. Yes; as I mentioned, they are far better than they were even 5-10 years ago. But if it takes a company 30 years to turn around, that makes people wonder (versus a company like Toyota that has instilled trust in people due to well-built vehicles). GM and Ford have to find a way to regain that trust. Otherwise, they will continue to lose market share even if they do eventually make products that are as good or better than Toyota.