4th Sep 2007, 00:07

Well said 23:58,

The main point here is that the Toyota Tundra has not been around nearly long enough to prove that it's any good. (And the initial signs don't look good) You can't assume that this new truck is better than the domestic competition just because it's a Toyota.

Last question, how many 1985 Toyota pickup trucks do you see that are still around and running, and how many 1985 Chevy Silverado or F150 pickup trucks are still on the road? If Toyotas really do last forever like you say, how come I never see the ones that should still be around?

4th Sep 2007, 09:55

Simple answer over whether or not Toyota trucks will work as hard or harder than any Ford or Chevy is yes. The simple answer over whether or not a Toyota or more reliable on average than Ford or Chevy... the answer would be yes.

Just look up any number of consumer ratings and independent testing research and you'll see the numbers.

Lastly, I live in California and I see a TON of late 70's, early 80's toyotas still being used for serious work. Perhaps it is the fact that until recent history, places in the Midwest, South, and so forth were still fairly domestic-only minded. Trust me- I grew up in the South and even now the rules of the area are that you buy either Ford or Chevy. If you live in Wisconsin, Minnesota, or Kansas and claim you see few old Toyotas, its because Toyotas in the early, mid-80's were not very prevelant.

4th Sep 2007, 14:04

Most of those 1985 Ford or Chevrolet's have been restored... this is getting out of control... why I should buy a truck (GM, Ford) with a 49 percent customer satisfaction. You know what domestic lovers? You are in the minority for once!

4th Sep 2007, 14:07

My 5.7 liter LT1 was a pretty good engine, but it was costly because of stupid things like Opti-spark...I think we had thousands of dollars into it and then the rod started to knock at 125,000 miles. We traded it on a Honda Accord; not for performance, but for reliability and economy.

4th Sep 2007, 17:29

00:07 I believe we've already covered this. How many trucks did Toyota sell in the US in '85? How many did GM sell? That's why you see a FEW '85 GM trucks around (probably rebuilt 3 times), GM sold millions more trucks in the '80's than Toyota did. That's the only reason you see more of them. Now that Toyota sells more Tacoma's and such, in 15 years you'll see way more of those still running than any GM truck of the same year.

5th Sep 2007, 11:26

Wow! You people are rough on each other. Lets deal in true facts not one vehicle sold in this country is made from parts made from this country alone (NONE). Toyota has good vehicles and bad vehicles and so do the domestic brands. The media has been playing with the consumers heads for years about gas mileage and the consumer hears Toyota on a commercial and thinks its better than chocolate without any investigating into the other brands that are not talked about.

Ford, Chevy, and Dodge have all dug their holes by paying CEO's and top management much more than they are worth and not listening to the consumer (Something Toyota has been doing for years). I own two Ford's both have there place Ford F-250 (work and play) and Ford Fusion (wife and kid).

Toyota makes a nice truck, but if you look at the label 25% of the parts are made in China, 10% in Japan, 15% in Canada, 30% in USA, and the other 20% are not listed. I think I will stick with the Domestic models at least 75%-85% are still made in USA.

It still boils down to greed in this country and in the end CREED will ruin this county.

5th Sep 2007, 15:06

Oh sure- Toyota INTENTIONALLY decided to engineer engines that self-destruct? The fact that my family has had no less than 7 Toyota cars and trucks, of which had various designs involving oil filters either upside down or right side up, either above or below the camshaft, and which none have had any major problems other than a bad wheel bearing in an 88' 4runner, and a bad brake caliper in a 98' Avalon is cross-sectional real-life proof that NO - Toyota doesn't, nor has ever designed engines to self-destruct.

All you need to do is compare the amount of recalls both Ford and GM have had in the last 10 years, and compare the numbers to Toyota or Honda. Sure - ALL cars companies have had recalls... But if we're comparing recalls... Ford and GM win hands down in that game.

I think the real issue here is that Toyota gained a sterling reputation of reliability via good engineering - engineering based on manufacturing techniques suggested to US automakers by independent American industrialists and rejected, yet adopted by Japanese firms. The fact that companies like Toyota based their engineering and manufacturing output via more intelligent, efficient models meant they produced and still produce higher quality products.

I find it interesting that while Ford or GM might have to recall MILLIONS of cars and trucks, if either Toyota or Honda have even ONE, the anti-import go crazy and put these up as 'proof' of how bad Toyotas and Hondas are. Ironic because even they know the truth, and are don't like to admit it.

5th Sep 2007, 15:10

I think one more thing that can't be denied is that Toyota and Nissan pretty much KILLED the US small and mid-sized truck segment. The Colorado and it's sibling models are pretty much jokes that sell in small numbers. The Ranger is going to be discontinued this upcoming year. It hasn't been updated since 1993.Embarrassing.

So what it boils down to is this: We can argue all day long about what company builds a better product. But in the end, if consumers buy the cars and trucks they like and companies like GM and Ford don't listen, then they'll lose another market just like they lost the small truck market.

5th Sep 2007, 18:52

The only restored part of my Chevy C20 is certain parts of the sheet-metal. The original was never washed, waxed, or cared for. The truck was used to haul tobacco, hay, wood, rocks, fertilizer, or whatever else. The drivetrain is ALL original, everything from the engine to the wheel hub assemblies. It was not babied and it was used to move multiple tons.

I still haven't seen anyone stating that they've pulled 12,000 pounds with their Toyota, or hauled 1000 or more pounds with it. I guess I can assume that no one does. So what are these serious loads that these tiny little Toyota's, that are all over the place in California, moving? Lawnmowers or couches? Oh maybe a refrigerator if you're feeling crazy! I would imagine that none of those Toyota's have a ton in the back of them, or at least let's hope not. Good luck stopping.

It is literally impossible for a 70's or 80's model Toyota to do "serious" work. The Toyota's today lack enough metal, but the old ones were ridiculously scrawny. They were Corolla's with beds. How in the world could they possibly move or haul anything huge? Maybe your definition of "serious work" is a little more liberal than other peoples.

Ford and Chevy have a niche with small pickups today. The Tacoma, Dakota, and Frontier have all grown to nearly full-size trucks, but the Ranger and Colorado are still actually small and efficient. The Ranger has not been redesigned for a decade or more because the design is working for Ford. If it were so awful, they would be redesigning it over and over. Also, I see Rangers all over the place and they are a very popular fleet vehicle, which would be a good enough reason to keep them in production.