18th Oct 2007, 14:46

I would perhaps consider a stripped import rather than luxury imports as when the time comes to replace the engine/trans it would be disposable. I cannot see short warranties and engine/trans woes...

18th Oct 2007, 16:57

Never. Never was the Fusion higher than the Accord 4 cylinder and maybe the six cylinder.

18th Oct 2007, 17:55

I'm not exactly sure what is so incredibly difficult for people to actually spend the time and read the report that was reported on ABC. ABC got this report from Consumer reports quoted the following:

"Domestic manufacturers General Motors (Charts, Fortune 500), Ford (Charts, Fortune 500) and Chrysler continued to improve in the Consumer Reports reliability rankings. But only Buick, GM's near-luxury brand ranked number 10, made into the top ten."

OK... so for some of you who failed to read it the first time, here's the most important part of that report:

"But only Buick, GM's near-luxury brand ranked number 10, made into the top ten."

Yes - so there is ONE brand out of all three domestic producers combined that even made it into the top 10. Where is Toyota? Number five behind Honda, Acura, and Subaru.

I know many of you are interpreting this report to mean that somehow Ford and GM are now better than Toyota. The report made absolutely no mention of this. The report mentioned that both GM and Ford IMPROVED. That in no way means that Ford or GM now produce better vehicles.

So I don't think any Toyota owners are being as someone keeps saying - Delusional. You want facts? How about reading the past 25 years of Consumer reports? How about reading the last 25 years of JD Power? How about looking up recalls? How about asking actual people on the street? How about reading this site?

And to the person that wrote that they'd buy a cheap import because the engines are disposable? I think you got that backwards buddy... Buy a Used Taurus. That truly is disposable.

18th Oct 2007, 18:39

This thread is ridiculous. I have not seen a single hard fact to back up all of the Toyota claims on here. I hardly think that "Consumer Reports" findings are relevant. J.D. Power ranks Buick and Lexus number one in long-term reliability. "Consumer Reports" ranks Buick number 10? A bit of a discrepancy I would say. J.D. Power is based on thousands of actual owners experiences with their cars, "Consumer Reports" is an irrelevant publication that has been advocating any automobile from Japan over domestics since the 1970's.

18th Oct 2007, 18:48

13:00 I can't believe I have to explain this again. Unbelievable.

OK... OVERALL, Ford was ranked THIRTEENTH and Toyota did drop, but only to FIFTH. Fifth is better than thirteenth. YES, Ford has a couple of models for the first time in years that are rated higher than a few of the Toyota's, which is rare, enjoy it while it lasts.

OVERALL, Toyota is still, like always, rated MUCH higher than any of the Big 3. Numbers 1 through 4 are all imports.

18th Oct 2007, 20:55

18:39 So you trust J.D. Power? So do I. And take a GUESS who makes Lexus... TOYOTA!! I guess the phrase 'foot in mouth' applies here. They've ranked Lexus #1 13 years running, only this year, not being beaten by, but sharing the top spot with Buick, a fluke for Buick.

18th Oct 2007, 21:37

And JD Power and Associates is the only company that says a Cavalier is the most appealing small car, and says dumb things like that. Who is going to believe that?

18th Oct 2007, 22:41

Once again, your statement here is NOT a FACT. It is an OPINION.

It is becoming more and more difficult to deal with individuals such as yourself here on this site, who promote propaganda and opinions, stating them as facts.

Something like Ford sold almost 900,000 F Series trucks last year, while Toyota sold well below 200,000 Tundras, is a FACT. You CANNOT deny it.

I am not seeing where "Toyota is the higher quality manufacturer" follows the same criteria as the above statement. That's because it doesn't, therefore it is NOT a fact. It is an opinion, for the hundredth time.

19th Oct 2007, 08:02

22:41 I'm not denying the F-150/Tundra sales; that is a fact.

However, that is just another way of sidestepping the FACT that Toyota makes the better vehicle.

How long has the F-150 been around? Of course it sells well. Toyota just fairly recently entered the full size truck market, it can't be expected to sell at those numbers until people realize that it IS the better truck. They already have with the cars, the Camry is the best selling car in the U.S. That is a fact. Toyota has always been rated the better buy, more reliable vehicle, best used car purchase, higher resale value, than Ford by EVERY major 'car magazine' or product- review - type magazine in the country. That is a fact; no doubt someone might possibly be able to dig up some obscure publication that says otherwise, but all of the major ones agree. And you seem intelligent enough to realize that although Toyota has dropped in the rankings because of some redesigns, and Ford has actually begun to pay attention slightly to what they sell the public, and has improved, they still have a LONG way to go to reach the level of quality that Toyota achieved years ago.

AGAIN, Toyota is still in the top five, and no domestics are present there. Ford is thirteenth, not even in the top ten. Ford is improving, but still not enough yet. Maybe they will continue to, but today, they're no match for Toyota quality. That's a fact, possibly with the exception of a couple of models. Fifth vs. thirteenth.

Now, you explain to me why you think Ford is better, in light of all of that information, instead of just spouting off that you THINK they are.

Higher truck sales have nothing to do with the quality of them. You are having difficulty 'dealing' with commentors like me because we present facts you can't deny and you don't know what to say about it, because it proves your theories wrong. Like most domestic owners, I'm sure you'll resort to using the two or three Ford models that are currently rated higher than one or two Toyota models, and fail to see the whole picture AGAIN. Fifth vs. thirteenth overall quality.

19th Oct 2007, 10:14

I find it difficult to believe that you seem to be running around with blinders on and must be presented with "facts" regarding vehicle quality. If you so steadfastly adhere to this notion, and have the time to haggardly claim that All Toyota owners are spewing propaganda; when we mention that Toyota in general produces vehicles that are reliable in comparison to other brands, especially domestic, then you obviously have time to do some very simple searches on Google to see how we whom make such claims get our information. You might want to start with 'Automotive Information Systems'.

Secondly, most Toyota owners here are representing the vehicles they own. That the majority of our vehicles are remarkably reliable is a fact.

You have no argument.