22nd Aug 2007, 13:25

The commercial contractors mentioned drive mostly larger Ford F 250 class or equivalent most diesels not smaller Tundras or F150's. I see them daily with the exception of a coworker with an Avalanche. All is mentioned is the Ford F 150 by the Toyota fanatic not the rest of the complete lineup that is very extensive. By the way look at sales of 160,000 vehicles last year to 800,0000 for Ford F Series alone vs. Tundra. Tundra isn't being sold in any significant numbers if you compare to domestics. I test drove a new Tundra as many probably have as they are not new now. Wheres the population of impressed contractor/professional buyers that should be prevalent by now?

22nd Aug 2007, 15:40

I own one of every major body change from the 55 1st series Chevy to the 88 1500. That's six trucks on the fence row. The 64 was the best, followed by the 68. After that they went down hill like a snowball headed for hell. I bought a 2007 Toyota Tundra SR5 because, like my 88, the new Chevys door hinges are not adjustable, they are welded to the body and door. The new Toyotas are not. What is the first impression you get of a vehicle, the door. I bought the Toyota because I think it is the best truck currently on the market. I buy for best, not brand. Reputations are hard to make, and easy to break.

22nd Aug 2007, 20:53

You obviously knew nothing if you really think aluminum is as good/or better than cast iron. Let me make an example, albeit not the greatest one, but here's a shot; have you ever taken a piece of aluminum and put it into a fire? It melts and is destroyed after a short period of time. Now, take a piece of cast iron, or even iron, and put it into the fire. All it will do is glow red and maybe bend if you really try. Then it will cool down as if it were never even heated. THAT is the difference between an aluminum engine block and a cast iron engine block. If you overheat that cheesy aluminum car engine once or twice, and I mean seriously heat it up, you are gonna have major issues. Heat a cast iron engine block, and the most you'll have to do is change the oil that might have gotten scorched over time. My '93 Explorer has been put to the test. It still fires up every day, despite the fact that I have overheated it countless times. No ping, no smoke; just a solid rumble.

Aluminum is a lighter, cheaper, and flimsier material than cast iron. That is a fact; if you argue you are flat out wrong. Sure, my fire example might not apply 100% to a work truck, but the basics are there. Aluminum is aluminum, and cast iron is cast iron. No matter how much (material) you use, it will NEVER be as strong or as durable as cast iron. Period.

The sad thing is, Toyota does in fact intend for their new Tundra to be used as a work truck, and that is why it will fail. It's got an aluminum engine. An aluminum engine that, yeah, will work flawlessly, until the day you overheat it. Which, to be honest, if you REALLY are WORKING the truck, will most likely happen. Then, lifters start sticking and a millimeter gap in the piston walls appears, and you will lose compression and power.

And because these gaps occur by the millimeter in an aluminum engine, extra oil is burnt off. Oil rings aren't sealed as well anymore, etc, etc, etc.

I could go on and on about applications and facts, but it still remains, tried and true, that aluminum will never be as good as cast iron.

22nd Aug 2007, 21:38

How many Ford 250 are sold in Japan???

23rd Aug 2007, 09:24

The argument over cast iron and aluminum is ridiculous. Using extremely crude physical characteristics of various metals has nothing to do with engineering. I could just as easily mention the fact that cast iron has a tendency much more than aluminum to crack.

There are hundreds of different kinds of aluminum alloys and levels of temperament for metals of all kinds. That's why there's such alloys as T7651, which is a type of aluminum used in aircraft production. The reason such alloys are used is because they are highly durable, strong, and lightweight. Those aircraft, along with their engines use a high percentage of aluminum in their construction and withstand many times the stress, heat, warping, and pressure of a car. Now go walk into a room full of aerospace engineers and tell them that they're completely wrong and should be making planes out of cast iron...

In regards to cars, I've never overheated a car. Of the few people who I know who have, almost 90% of the reason came from severe neglect; the radiator was leaking, or the coolant was seldom if ever changed. Your single argument that a cast iron engine saves you from having damage in the case of overheating is sort of null, given the fact that even if you did overheat a cast iron engine, you'd very likely warp the head and blow the head gasket, which means a $1,500 minimum repair sheet. The same would happen with an aluminum engine, which would be the destruction of the head gasket and possible warping of the head. Different materials, same results.

What this all boils down to is that there are those who are all about "Buy American!" and so will always buy Fords and Chevys. Whether Toyotas are engineered better has nothing to do with the argument. Any mechanical device is comprised of hundreds of moving parts that will perform nicely if you take care of them.

Many of these trucks are made from parts supplied by both foreign and domestic suppliers. In some cases they share the same components. My Tacoma has a GM radiator, AC pump, and Evac system. My brother's Ford Ranger has a German built engine under the hood. So in reality, if you think you're buying an American or Japanese built truck... you probably aren't.

23rd Aug 2007, 20:00

Probably no Ford 250's are sold in Japan. But probably a lot of Ford F-250's are.

23rd Aug 2007, 21:40

Yeah, we domestic drivers really never haul thousands of pounds in our truck beds. Yep, we're lying. I made all of that up... Baloney. Once again, you think your Toyota sets the standard for a truck and since your Toyota can't haul a thousand pounds without the leaf springs breaking, you then automatically assume that those "crappy" domestic brands can't do it either. Wrong.

I have twice hauled 1000lbs pallets of Motorcraft oil filters over 90 miles (in one direction) on my delivery route. Not to mention the delivery drivers (who worked at the dealership before I started working there) that have hauled thousands of pounds in my delivery F-150. Each time, I got the fork lift, picked the pallet up, sat it on my tailgate (did not hurt it), backed the fork lift up and scooted the load on into the back of my 8ft bed. I then took ratcheting straps to keep the pallet from scooting forwards. The bed squatted a few inches and the truck handled and rode much better with the weight dampening the springs.

We've also used the F-150 to move dozens of automatic transmissions that came in a stock order at the dealership. We had to move about 24 or more transmissions that we were putting away in our warehouse for stock. We took our fork-lift, loaded our E-150 and my F-150 with five automatic transmissions each, and moved them across the parking lot. We made several trips across the lot. This is not a far trip, but the point is, the E-150 and F-150 did not squat all the way down with these loads. Each transmission weighs anywhere from 200lbs to 300lbs. Take that and multiply it by five and do the math. We've also put about 1000 lbs of transmissions in the back of our Ranger delivery truck, and it didn't squat it either. Work suspensions I tell you. It's amazing what thick and wide leaf springs can do.

My father used a late 70's model F-150 to haul tobacco bails in its 8ft bed. The stack was so large, the bails were stacked all the way over the roof. The truck squatted all the way down, but had no problems moving and handling the load. My father hauled 3800lbs of tobacco in my '78 C20 and the leaf springs barely squatted. Nine leaf springs, you can count them if you want to, N-I-N-E.

I have also hauled two loads of green maple wood cut straight off the trees, each time with the wood piled over the sides of the bed. Each time I hauled the wood over a 20 mile trip. The C20 squatted about an inch and there was every bit of 2000 pounds of green wood in the bed.

My father also used my C20 to haul tobacco that had just been cut to the barn to be hanged when our wagon had rotted out. The tobacco was stacked all the way from the back window to the very edge of the tail gate. It did not squat the truck, and we hauled the loads across very bumpy patches thumping over top of tobacco stumps sticking up out of the ground, making the truck hop up and down all the way to the barn with probably a ton of tobacco in the back.

And yes as crazy and ridiculous as it sounds, TWICE I have seen F-150's hauling tree trunks of fully grown trees, squatting the bed all the way to the axles, but doing nothing to the frame. The first time, I saw an older model Ford hauling a huge trunk years ago on KY 1247, and about a year ago I had to pass a newer F-150 crawling up the road with a full grown tree trunk cut in half and both pieces laying in the bed on KY 70. And yes also on KY 70 about a month ago, I saw an S-10 pulling a fertilizer buggy.

Half ton and quarter ton are old time terms, just basically meaning the minimal amount setting the category a pickup fits into according to its suspension and drive-train re-enforcements. These are not literal terms. Usually half tons can handle up to 3000 pounds in the bed, and quarter tons can handle around 4000 pounds in the bed. These may go beyond the rating by the manufacturer, but domestics are re-enforced beyond their ratings to ensure they can handle any load someone might do with them.

My brother-in-law owns his own snow-plowing business. On March 11, 2005 a freak snow storm hit up where he lived, so he had to plow and salt a Pilot truck-stop with which he had a contract. I was with him and I helped him load, by hand, several tons of salt in the bed of his Dodge 2500 Diesel Ram; not to mention the 500 pound snow plow on the front and the salt thrower on the back. We made two trips back to his house to load back up with more salt, as he continued through the night until 4:00 AM, plowing and salting the parking lot of the truck-stop as the snow came down.

In the country, we know what work is and we know what work for a truck is, and we know what we expect out of our WORK trucks. We don't care about supple rides and pretty interiors, we care about heavy leaf springs and heavy frames that can handle the tonnage we throw at them. By saying something like "no one really hauls thousands of pounds in their truck" absolutely proves that you don't do work with your Toyota. Let me make a correction, YOU don't haul thousands of pounds in your truck. Some of us do and that's why we won't touch Toyota's.

You won't explain how your Tacoma is better designed. You just say "it's better designed". More ambiguity. Let me make a guess how your Tacoma is better designed. It's better designed because it has skinnier control arms, attached to skinnier frame rails, with a light and soft aluminum car engine, and a car transmission riding on the skinny frame.

I deliver parts to a place where they have salvage wrecked trucks laying around the lot. I saw a Tacoma frame laying in the lot where all of the other parts had been removed and sold separately. The frame was about as thick as a clip-board, and the fold of the frame was so small on the front and back of the frame that I could wrap my hand around the whole frame. The only impressive thing about the frame was it was actually fully boxed, but it would have to be since it was so skinny.

Gee, I wonder why it would be able to fly through the air and land without any damage. Because it's light! A 3000lb Tacoma is not heavy. It's quite light. Try 5000 pounds or 6000 pounds if you want heavy. The Tacoma is lighter than any domestic equivalent, so it lands more softly than the equivalents. Lighter is not tougher, it's lighter.

But if it makes you feel better, I made all of these stories up because, noooo we don't use our trucks to move thousands of pounds. Never, it's all a big myth. LOL.