12th Mar 2009, 10:12

Having the ability to make an informed decision and have free choices is NOT anti-American. Sorry. I keep reading these same sort of posts over and over again, and truth be known, what I buy has nothing to do with my patriotism or anyone else's.

One thing is crystal-clear: the US has an evolving economy that continuously changes in regards to its primary industries. For example, I work as a graphic designer. 99% of what I design for goes online. 20 years ago 99% of it would have been printed on paper. As such, there has been a gradual decline in print production and as seen in the news, many newspapers are going out of business. But the news isn't stopping, but rather changing formats. Had I been working on one of those printing presses, I would have to make an important decisions: Either stay with a concept that was going obsolete or make motions to learn the current technology. I've personally changed careers three times, and I'm only 32. The world demands rapid change.

I use that analogy because in order to succeed, one must be flexible and willing to change careers, jobs, and learn new skills. Perhaps 50 years ago someone could work in the same GM plant doing the same remedial task, year in, year out and retire to the suburbs. That world no longer exists, and the auto worker, just like everyone else must learn to be adaptive and flexible.

As can be seen, the leanest, most efficient, and most respected companies survive in a modern economy. Regardless of what side of the fence you reside, you cannot deny the fact that GM, Ford, and Chrysler have not done a good job of adapting to change. They produced inferior products for decades until Japanese automakers introduced better built cars. They were slow to react, and even though I admit that they have made some solid gains in recent years, their action is too little too late, and not enough to persuade a skeptical consumer all too wary of their products.

You see, in the end it isn't about patriotism. It's about choice, and that choice is what makes the US economy what it is - a consumer driven economy. GM, Ford, and Chrysler have not transitioned into that economy. Perhaps they will. But in the meantime, don't call someone who made a conscious decision anti-American because that's totally inaccurate.

12th Mar 2009, 15:00

I've posted about this before. The curious thing is that Consumer Affairs is so different from sites and sources that do actual surveys. It's interesting that they accept advertising. It's notable that it isn't a scientific survey but rather replaces all of the controls imposed by an attempt at impartiality with anecdote -- which is fine, but it tells you nothing about what percentage of vehicles are having a given problem. It's also odd that there is so few complaints about other vehicles... some have had quite a few issues of their own, yet there is very little commentary about them. The site also refers to the Tundra as ugly -- an odd pejorative for a site claiming independence.

Lastly it has a strong emphasis on litigation -- that's part of the reason they present for pressing the "complaint button". I pressed the button to see what info they might want and found that there was no info that could be used to check if an individual actually owned the vehicle at all (like registration #). All of these things can skew results.

That doesn't make them wrong. Or biased. But it should lead you to question what's up.

12th Mar 2009, 15:32

So explain that to say a 50 year old with a Masters Degree that was downsized and cannot find a job today. It's also called age discrimination... I know some auto workers that have retired and are working elsewhere for pension # 2, and one is actually going for a 3rd retirement pension in time. Not all have been job hoppers. I would have not had an issue remaining with the largest corporation in the world in business for 100 years. I guess we can fault the newspapers for their low quality next.

I would love to have a brand new Challenger (not the current automatic) anytime vs. say a Corolla or Camry as an alternative. Maybe when I am 75 I may change that viewpoint.

12th Mar 2009, 19:10

OK, let's say it ISN'T about patriotism. Let's say it's about WORLD economics. Are you aware that right now even the "can do no wrong" Japanese car makers are up against the wall because numerous companies that build various items THEY use are being affected by the slow sales of the Big Three? (USA Today, March 12, 2009) If we bury our heads in the sand long enough we can convince ourselves of anything. Of course by the time it becomes obvious that supporting U.S. auto makers effects the WORLD's economy it will be too late to salvage ANYONE'S auto industry. Enjoy your bicycles.

12th Mar 2009, 19:34

Very good comment. No source that I have read that deals with automotive news says Toyota is better overall than Ford in RELIABILITY. Just the contrary. Yes, you can find magazines and other sources that refer to domestic vehicles as "less sophisticated". People somehow interpret that as "less reliable". Definitely not so. "Sophisticated" means more gadgets and more opportunities for malfunctions. An excellent example of this is BMW's horribly complicated "I-Drive" system. A USA Today reviewer said in his review a couple of years ago that it would probably relegate this "sophisticated" car that ALL the car magazines love to the "Used cars to avoid list".

Another point: Both Mercedes and BMW are touted as "sophisticated, refined and benchmarks of quality". If you check their actual RELIABILITY ratings, many models are worse than the very worst of Fords. When car magazines spend their couple of hours with a vehicle they are impressed with only two things: will it do 0-60 in under 5 seconds, and how many little nifty buttons it has for electronic gadgetry. They actually care very little about ride (anything comfortable is called "sloppy handling") and there is NO WAY they can remotely make ANY decisions about reliability. I also feel there is a VERY strong built-in bias against anything made by the U.S. on the part of ALL automotive magazines. One has to be careful in how they read too much into a glowing review of a car that indicates NOTHING about how LONG the car will run.

Comment 11:18 makes a very good point as well. We have also owned numerous cars that had "worse than average" or "much worse than average" reliability ratings. Not a one of them ever had a single mechanical problem. I can't say it is because we took better care of them either. We took exactly the same care of our imports and they were all lemons.

13th Mar 2009, 15:48

All this is interesting, but it boils down to what your opinion of your new full size truck was purchased for. I am going to the new boat show this weekend and that's why I bought a new truck (for towing mostly).

Maybe some of you read newpapers, Consumer magazines while parked in the full size cab or are catching the final moments of Analog TV in your new full size trucks watching CNN. I carry my family, utilize the bed and tow. I personally examined the handling characteristics, room, comfort, capability and warranty. Maybe besides the initial commenter and myself are we the only full size truck owners on this thread? It seems full of Aveo, Taurus, Prius, Tacoma owners on a full size truck review. I have learned more about the small vehicles then on full size trucks. I do not sit in a parked cab reading stacks of newspapers, magazines and watching TV, I get out there and test and evaluate all my requirements directly. My truck performs and works, has a far superior warranty then Tundra as well. I have not had issues and I had far too many on my late model imports.

If I went on the Ferrari review and commented on trucks, it would probably not enlighten them to any degree as well. How about some new full size truck actual coverage direct comments/comparisons by some other full size owners on here?