13th Mar 2009, 17:53

19:04 Toyota's are not blowing engines in epidemic numbers. Any of the three, Ford, Chevy, or Dodge have a far, FAR higher percentage of premature engine failures than Toyota ever did, or has. PERCENTAGE... You cannot provide a single fact to back up your completely unfounded claims, because none exist.

YES... there are articles about Toyota engine failures. However, there are FAR more articles about the MUCH higher frequency and percentage of domestic engine (and transmission) failures than has ever been printed about Toyota, or is true. Go ahead... try and back up your claim with fact. You cannot. They are the highest quality vehicles on the road anywhere. That IS a documented fact, whether you agree or not.

13th Mar 2009, 21:17

19:34 EVERY source I have read, which means EVERY major one.. Consumer Reports, Car and Driver, Edmunds, MotorTrend, ALL rate Toyota as more reliable than Ford, of higher initial and long-term quality than Ford, and a safer bet as a used car purchase than Ford. I have no idea what YOU are reading; I'd love to get a single specific example of a major automotive magazine that rates Ford as more reliable than Toyota. The problem is, there aren't any. And please, don't find one single Ford that has a better rating than a single Toyota. We're talking about OVERALL ratings, which manufacturer is better. And Toyota undoubtedly is.

As far as Toyota being more sophisticated, and they are even as you define it... what that means is engine design. They run more smoothly because they're designed and built far better. Which obviously means they'll generally last longer. And they do.

14th Mar 2009, 09:33

Smooth running, quiet and great comfort can easily be determined by a test drive. Maybe I am one of the few that did that on here with both domestic and import full sizes. Note... full size. There must be a reason we are not seeing a spectacular warranty offered on Toyotas. If the vehicles are so flawless then what's with the engine sludging, air bag issues, brake, trans issues? Saying domestics have more is a cop out. There should be none at all. Impress us with a 100,000 mile plus warranty to perhaps get me back to buying them again.

Who are buying all the Tundras past and present to displace all the others? Quite frankly I feel people are really looking, testing and filling applications when they look at full sizes. More Yaris comments and Consumer Reports... that's fine how about writing your first hand observations for others on here as a result of a 2009 test drive? I could care less how many Prius sell. I will never own one and if I were interested I would go on the Prius/Yaris thread. Full size trucks anyone that has driven any wish to share some comments any?

14th Mar 2009, 11:48

-- I'd love to get a single specific example of a major automotive magazine that rates Ford as more reliable than Toyota. The problem is, there aren't any. --

Well, here is MSNBC reporting on JD Power and Associate's survey with an article titled, "Ford Beats Toyota in Quality Rankings"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19073071/

Does that qualify?

-- As far as Toyota being more sophisticated, and they are even as you define it... what that means is engine design. They run more smoothly because they're designed and built far better. Which obviously means they'll generally last longer. And they do. --

Lasting longer??:

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/toyota_engine.html

Aside from the engine failures noted above that you still refuse to address, just what aspect of Toyota's engine designs are more sophisticated? Wasn't it Toyota who was using carburetors and vacuum lines into the '90's while most of the rest of the industry had switched to fuel injection? Who (GM) was using sequential port fuel injection long before it was mandated by the government, while Toyota was still using regular (banked) multi-port? Don't forget, GM owned Hughes Electronics (makers of space/satellite electronic systems), so they have a lot of engineering know how in that area they transferred to their vehicles, and have been industry leaders in it for many years.

After Toyota was forced to modify its archaic engine control systems in 1996 to conform to OBDII as an example, wasn't it they who lied to the federal government on the architecture and readiness of its evaporative emission control systems (knowing they had failed to design one that worked), got caught after the systems started having massive failures and was fined for it? You do not hear of other manufacturers having these types of problems, only Toyota.

What aspect of Toyota's "sophisticated" engine designs lead to 60-70 degree temperature variations between the head (s) and engine block in Toyota engines (when the industry standard is 10-15 degrees), which is a likely cause of sludging and engine failures Toyota has been experiencing, whether you want to admit it or not.

GM as another example builds engines that are more powerful than Toyota engines, placed in heavier vehicles, yet deliver better (hp/weight) fuel economy than lighter less powerful Toyota vehicles. Which of those engines has the more sophisticated design? And do not even start in with the overhead valve (pushrod) vs. overhead cam debate, because the overhead cam engine is an older design than (i.e., was designed before) the overhead valve engine.

You are desperately clinging to a tired myth of Toyota's supposedly being superior, still hoping there are enough people left who also buy into it, to make your comments appear to have any relevance. But the true facts, which do not include the subjective opinions of biased automotive reporters who could not engineer their way out of a paper bag, do not support the old myth.

14th Mar 2009, 12:24

All my friends who have owned Toyotas have had nothing but trouble. Stick with GM or Ford and you won't be disappointed!

14th Mar 2009, 17:48

Well, first off, two weeks ago on MSN it was clearly stated "Ford now is EQUAL in RELIABILITY" to "the BEST Japanese cars" (and I doubt Toyota any longer qualifies as "one of the best). Consumer Reports rates the entire Ford line as on a par with Toyota in reliability over all. The Fusion ranks TWO LEVELS HIGHER in reliability than the Camry. Please cite your sources for "reliability". Motor Trend and Car and Driver DO NOT test for reliability, so they CAN'T make any reliability projections on ANYTHING. Car magazines drive cars for a couple of hours then list THEIR OPINIONS of the cars, not ANYTHING SUBJECTIVE... EVER.

I just read a review that criticized the grille and interior vinyl finish on a Fusion. Now how OBJECTIVE is THAT?? I LIKE the grille and vinyl finish. That's PURELY OPINION, which is what virtually EVERY SINGLE IMPORT RANT is based on.

We've requested cited sources and frequency of repair records. What we've gotten is vague references to magazines that have not the slightest connection to reliability testing in any way, shape or form. The article in the October 2007 issue of Consumer Reports showcased the highest mileage vehicle in the article. It was a Ford truck with 488,000 miles and going strong. I'd consider that pretty good "proof" of reliability. Show me an article on ANY Toyota that has gone 488,000 miles...EVER. There is not a single gas-engined Toyota in the "million mile club". There is at least 1 Ford (that I know of) and one Cadillac. That says a lot about long-term reliability.

When it comes to used car values, how can you possibly argue that a LESS reliable car costing $5000 MORE is a GOOD buy??? I just bought a Ford Fusion with 18,000 miles on it. It is fully loaded including leather. I paid $13,000. A comparable Camry would have been $18,000. Now what POSSIBLE ADVANTAGE is there in paying $5000 MORE for a car that is rated TWO LEVELS WORSE in reliability?? The Camry is rated as "average" by the VERY MAGAZINE you cited as a source, while the Fusion is rated "MUCH BETTER than average". Even the Accord is rated one level lower than the Fusion. When shopping for a good deal on a used car, it WON'T be a Japanese car. If $5000 more for a less reliable car is a "good deal" then I'll take the "bad deal" ANY DAY!!