14th Mar 2009, 23:06

Thanks for the info. I haven't seen any sources lately that DON'T rank Ford as good or better than Toyota or Honda in reliability. Consumer Reports, J.D. Powers, USA Today, and most other sources and reviewers are coming out on the side of Ford. Japanese cars are losing ground, and FAST. USA Today alone has featured reviews in the past month bashing both Nissan and Toyota, and stating that the Ford Focus is a much better car and "more upscale" in feel than the Toyota. EVERYONE agrees that the Fusion is several notches above both the Camry and Accord in reliability.

It's becoming obvious that Japanese cars are not now, and in reality never have been anywhere near as good as the hype has made them out to be. We had Japanese cars made when they were SUPPOSED to be better (late 80's, early 90's). Ours weren't as reliable then as our Fords were. Today there is no comparison at all. Ford takes it hands down.

15th Mar 2009, 07:11

9:46... I have a 7000 lb. pull plus with my 2 boats, so another factor to consider is tongue weight. There are a lot of people focused on "gas sippers" on here. I prefer a V8 with towing. Or better yet, diesel.

I found the best way is to look out in the parking lot at all the newer full size trucks with small and large trailers. I go to the massive new boat ramps, and everyone is lined up, and it's lined with 1/2-3/4 ton, with some even larger domestics. Everyone loves talking about their boats/trucks waiting, and I ask there. Not from people trying to sell me one. If you do not tow or carry loads, why buy a full size truck at all? And I suspect most on here do not own one to comprehend why they are bought on applications in 2009. I suspect we will hear about not needing a domestic dually or 1 ton truck. I agree with that; in my case I prefer 3/4 ton; no compromises on application or safety. Performs flawless, and far better capability and warranty as well.

15th Mar 2009, 08:42

Thanks for the site. The tongue weight issue is significant but is mitigated somewhat by my weight distribution hitch. What pickup do you own? Right now I have a trailer but no reliable pickup to pull it with. So I'm looking toward the future. How long have you owned it? What problems have you had? Could they have been avoided? If so, how? When you tow, does your truck wander?

Thanks for any answers in advance. Obviously I'm not a Toyota basher since I'm a former owner, but my experience tells me that the Tundra needs a fair amount of beefing-up to pull heavier trailers.

15th Mar 2009, 11:08

Oh really?? Then I guess you somehow conveniently overlooked the Fusion (rated MUCH higher than the Camry) and the Mustang (rated tops over the Toyota Solara). I'm also sure you weren't aware that the 2007 Pontiac Grand Prix beat out the Toyota Avalon for "Best in class" in J.D. Powers rankings. Sounds a bit like VERY selective reading to me. Try reading comments 23:06, 17:11,17:48 and 16:28. Real data from real sources. In full size trucks NOTHING beats ANY domestic. That's fact, not opinion. Ask people who actually own and use trucks in their work. How many Tundras have you seen on construction sites?

15th Mar 2009, 20:06

J.D. Power rates Toyota below Ford (of course) in overall quality. It's that simple. As does any other source I've ever read. I guess if you want to buy a Ford and believe that it's as good, that's your decision.

15th Mar 2009, 20:08

23:06, Ahh...no. Sorry. In reality, the Japanese automobiles of the 80's and 90's were WORLDS ahead of all the domestics. Ford is beginning to at least close the gap a little, not nearly in the same league as a Toyota or a Honda of course, but closer. At least they're not complete junk now.

16th Mar 2009, 14:19

There is a BIG difference between INITIAL and LONG TERM reliability. All of you guys jumping all over that MSNBC/JD power article are getting a little too excited over the fact that they are indicating INITIAL quality. I could really care less about initial quality, which is a moot point anyway. What counts is long term reliability, which I'm sorry to once more point out is by far in Toyota's favor. Sorry - but Ford is NOT more reliable than Toyota in any shape, form, or fashion.

And in regards to this comment:

"OK, let's say it ISN'T about patriotism. Let's say it's about WORLD economics. Are you aware that right now even the "can do no wrong" Japanese car makers are up against the wall because numerous companies that build various items THEY use are being affected by the slow sales of the Big Three? (USA Today, March 12, 2009) If we bury our heads in the sand long enough we can convince ourselves of anything. Of course by the time it becomes obvious that supporting U.S. auto makers effects the WORLD's economy it will be too late to salvage ANYONE'S auto industry. Enjoy your bicycles."

ALL automakers are having problems right now. But the reason isn't because US car makers are doing badly. The reason is that credit has dried up. But just to back up the boat for just a second, US car makers have been in trouble for a long time now, and well before the current economic crisis. GM and Ford have been losing market share not because they build fantastic cars that everyone wants, but because they build less and less that people want. Oh sure - they built loads of trucks and SUVs for sure. But they totally ignored their small and mid sized car lineups, with examples like the Cavalier, Taurus, and Escort being total jokes.

What it boils down too is really, really simple: The company with better products wins, and regardless of how you feel about it, success doesn't come from building poor products. Hence GM and Ford's eventual demise.

Lastly, Toyota will be around for a long time, so I will have a choice of what to drive. But I do enjoy a nice bike ride on occasion...

16th Mar 2009, 15:32

Actually we switched to domestics recently, and found that 80-90's imports were then better, and had the cachet if you wish to call it that, as they were truly made in Japan then.

16th Mar 2009, 18:09

It would certainly be helpful if comments like 20:06 and 20:08 would actually QUOTE SOME SOURCES. Other comments, such as 16:28, 11:48, 17:48, and 23:06 all cite sources. It gets tiresome reading the same old "It's better because I say so" and "Every source says Toyota is best" (THEY DON'T) without a single quote or reference.

It is one thing to read comments from obviously car-savvy people (many of whom have owned a great number of domestics and imports) and who bother to list sources and back up their claims. It gets a bit tiresome reading quotes from individuals who have owned one used Ford with 200,000 miles on it that had a bad cigarette lighter and was considered "crap". It also sounds somewhat less than credible to read "Toyota is best" from people who owned a Tacoma that actually BROKE IN HALF due to improperly designed FRAMES!! Of course the argument will be made "but Toyota FIXED it!!" Sure, I guess so. Any manufacturer that builds vehicles that BREAK IN HALF SHOULD fix them!!

If people are going to comment on a full sized truck, it might help if they had ever OWNED one. Comments from full sized truck owners back up the overwhelming amount of data in showing that, for now, no manufacturer makes a full sized truck that is as good (or has as good a warranty) as ANY domestic truck. For the heavy duty hauling our companies use Ford, Chevy and Dodge trucks, and have for decades. We do so for one major reason: NOTHING ELSE MADE CAN DO THE JOB.