17th Mar 2009, 21:04

"Like I've told many people, I've owned nothing but Toyotas and have had no problems"

How can anyone have any OBJECTIVE view of any product, especially an automobile, if they HAVE NEVER OWNED ONE?? If you have never owned a domestic, how can you POSSIBLY state with a straight face that they are "better". That is like saying "All I've ever eaten is chocolate ice cream, but I KNOW it is better!! If all you have ever owned is Toyota, then OF COURSE the "best car" you ever owned would be a Toyota!!

We've owned Ford, Chevy, Dodge, Plymouth, Pontiac, GMC, BMW, Mercedes, Toyota, Honda, Mazda and VW. Not a one of our Big Three vehicles ever had a problem, including many we drove over 200,000 miles. Not a single Japanese car made 100,000 miles without MANY repairs. Sorry, but with our country in major financial distress you'll have to excuse me if I don't rush out and start sending my car-buying dollars to Japan.

17th Mar 2009, 21:28

Very true. Over the years we have owned a number of "worse than average" or "much worse than average" vehicles. One of these made over 300,000 miles with virtually no problems. One made 277,000 miles with ZERO problems, and one made 240,000 miles with two timing belts and one heater hose replaced.

The worst nightmares we had were a Mazda (that was built in Japan before Ford took over and improved the quality) and a (Heaven forbid!!) HONDA CIVIC!!

We currently own an 8-year old and 6-year-old GM vehicle, neither of which has had a single issue beyond one burned out light bulb. We also own a 2006 and 2007 Ford and they are both flawless. I'm a mechanic and do all my own servicing and any repairs required (which on domestics has been virtually ZERO). The two worst built cars I have ever worked on were the much-ballyhooed Honda and Mazda.

Your observations about Consumer Reports are certainly very appropriate. I found it VERY INTERESTING that in the October 2007 issue of CR they did a story on "Long Lasting Vehicles". On the COVER was a picture of (what else??) a HONDA CIVIC!! Ironically in the ACTUAL ARTICLE it turned out the Civic had the LOWEST mileage of any vehicle in the entire article. The one with the HIGHEST MILEAGE was a FORD!!! (with 488,000 miles). No doubt many people glanced at the COVER and saw a Civic under a headline about "high mileage cars") and were misled. This is VERY typical of so many publications. I also noticed that under the title "The Best and Worst Cars of 2009" CR very prominently displayed a FORD FUSION (which has their HIGHEST rating) directly under the word "Worst". This sort of thing is very misleading, and I think 100% deliberate.

When it comes to broken down cars on the side of the road, I drive 20 miles one-way to my office on the freeway, and over the course of the past 20 years I've seen AT LEAST 20 times more Japanese vehicles than domestics waiting to be towed. Just yesterday on a THREE MILE STRETCH I saw 2: A Nissan Maxima and a Toyota Camry. I honestly can't remember the last time I saw a broken down domestic.

17th Mar 2009, 22:08

10:24 Thanks for reciting the facts (again) that the domestic owners seem to overlook. "The best vehicles are built by Toyota, Honda, and Subaru". That is correct, and it is fact. It is also a fact that Ford scores near the bottom, or at least in the bottom third. If you want a vehicle that rates low because it isn't built well enough to GET a better rating, buy a Ford. If you want an even crappier one than that, buy a Chevy or a Dodge. If you want the best, buy a Toyota or a Honda. I rest my case.

Of course, one comment from some anonymous Ford owner with claims of high mileage and no repairs on a Ford will change those facts... (laughing).

18th Mar 2009, 12:59

Why doesn't anyone give credit to the Crown Victoria/Grand Marquis/Town Car? They are some of the most reliable and durable vehicles produced. It's no wonder people have problems with most domestic and foreign vehicles, most of them are built the same way: uni-body, front-wheel drive, with overstressed 4 cylinder engines.

GM and Chrysler really started building junk when they dropped their body-on-frame, RWD cars, at least Ford kept them around. The Crown Vic and its sister cars have been tried and true over and over again. When NYC tried to switch to hybrid taxis, they couldn't hold up to the abuse the Vics could and they were doing horribly in safety tests. Oh yeah, and how many police departments use Honda's and Toyota's? Yeah didn't think so. That's because they know that junk won't hold up!

18th Mar 2009, 17:11

That's hardly what I'd call accurate. Sure - right after WW2, American companies offered patent technology to Japanese firms to help them rebuild their economy. But if you look under any hood of any Japanese car from the 70's - today, there's few similarities between them and their American-made counterparts. As far as "copying technology", that's a very vague term given that the four stroke engine was developed in 1854 by Otto in France and later configured into an automotive engine by Daimler Benz... hence in that respect, Henry Ford and other US carmakers did the same thing.

But the difference between Japanese and American engines is drastic, and especially in the 70's-90's time period. The Japanese government employed Edward Demmming, whom was an industrial designer and manufacturing specialist who ironically helped the US develop and manufacture war related items quicker, more efficiently, and with more quality control. He brought this same approach to Japanese firms who applied it to making cars. They used what is known as lean manufacturing where one plant could make numerous cars.

Another thing that Japanese car companies did was focus on making engines and drive trains simpler by eliminating unnecessary parts. This in turn made them more reliable. This was ironically what Henry Ford did with the model T, yet later abandoned in favor of competing with GM, where the approach was to slap the same aged drive train under a new body every year.

Lastly, the attention to quality was above average. Look at any Honda from the 70's. The parking brake cables are sheathed. Look at any American car from that era: No sheathing. It's not like you need it per say, but that one extra step is an example of how companies like Toyota took extra steps that ultimately meant better cars.

I can attest to this personally. My "other" car is a 1955 Mercury Monterey. Under the hood is a 1972 351 V8. Ford made variants of this engine from the 60's all the way up to the 90's. Parts will fit it from numerous decades. The engine is in comparison to the one in my 90's or even previous 80's Toyotas is crudely cast, continuously in need of proper maintenance, and unrefined. There is no comparison here, and if some are suggesting that Japanese car makers "copied" American engines from the same 70's-90's era, then that's a joke in itself.