19th Mar 2009, 00:07
Yes, the Crown Vic and its Mercury stablemate are among the best cars on the planet. And of course no sane police department would use a Toyota or Honda. Drivers would laugh so hard they'd crash. No front drive car is really competent as a police pursuit vehicle (though some Impalas are used). Most all of the new police vehicles in our area now are Dodge Chargers. They have NO PROBLEM catching anyone. Now that Ford has dropped the Crown Vic, both the Dodge Charger and Pontiac G8 both seem very capable replacements.
All major sources (MSN, USA Today, Consumer Reports, J.D. Powers, Edmunds, and even the highly biased Car and Driver are now admitting that Ford has equaled Honda and surpassed Toyota in reliability. Of course I've known that for a VERY ling time. I've never seen a Toyota with half a million miles on it. That is not all that rare for Fords.
19th Mar 2009, 08:15
"GM and Chrysler really started building junk when they dropped their body-on-frame, RWD cars"
Don't the 300, Charger, and Challenger fit into that category?? I know I've seen dozens of Charger police interceptors. Minus the Crown Vic, Chrysler has been the company primarily responsible for the revival of the rear drive concept.
If the Japanese built body-on-frame rear wheel drive cars, it's doubtful that domestic governmental and quasi-governmental agencies would use them in any large numbers. In most areas there are enough people who feel that anything but domestic vehicles are unpatriotic that many governmental agencies don't include them in their fleets. Even county vehicles that don't get hard use are domestics.
In most of the places I've been police, fire, county, state, and federal vehicles are all domestics. Domestic manufacturers have offered pretty significant fleet discounts as well, so many rental fleets were domestically biased too.
These facts neither prove the value of domestics or imports. If you want to show that domestics are wonderful and imports are "junk", you'll have to do it some other way.
19th Mar 2009, 09:00
We've owned Hondas, a Nissan, a Toyota, a Jeep, a Ford, Chevies, a Pontiac, a Saturn, and a Buick. The worst two were a Chevy Citation and a Honda Civic. Both were purchased used and had been (apparently) abused by their previous owners. Everything else has been reliable... imports or domestics. That's just my experience. Others may have different experiences.
Several things seem to be happening on here.
#1 People have a certain set of experiences that they think are universal. That viewpoint is myopic and lacks circumspection.
#2 They have some bad vehicles and think that reflects on the products of an entire region, rather than just on the product in question.
#3 Anyone who has the gall to cast doubt on the universal nature of their assertions is labelled "biased" or "brainwashed".
#4 If independent research doesn't affirm their experience, "the research must be flawed". These have been true of both sides of this debate (at times) so far.
I buy vehicles, not companies. I buy vehicles, not regions. I buy vehicles, not countries. The fact that my vehicles have been reliable, doesn't serve to prove that ALL the vehicles from the region or country in which they were made are reliable. No reasonable person can make that claim since even the manufacturers admit that some of their products turn out less reliable than others.
Right now, there may be an economic reason for purchasing domestically. It may be lessened by your viewpoint of unions, management or product planning. But from a strictly selfish standpoint, you'll likely be worse off if these big manufacturers fail. I don't want to overplay this or call anyone "unpatriotic" if they buy something else. But just remember that each and every purchase DOES matter.
Today I'd likely buy domestic products.
19th Mar 2009, 10:58
The Crown Vic and Grand Marquis are dinosaurs. The only reason Ford still makes them is for police cars and cab drivers.
19th Mar 2009, 12:54
"Don't the 300, Charger, and Challenger fit into that category??"
No they do not - they may be rear wheel drive, but they are not body on frame. Virtually everything is uni-body nowadays.
19th Mar 2009, 16:43
17:11.
I work extensively with intellectual property, am an engineer and registered United States Patent agent. Japanese companies have historically required US companies to license their intellectual properties to Japanese companies as a condition for them being sold in Japan. I am not talking about right after WWII either; I am talking primarily about electronic components in recent years, for instance the notorious Japanese TV monopoly of the 1980's that you might have heard of, which (no disrespect to the Japanese people) is a notorious example of the disreputable trade practices Japanese "companies," with the aid of the Japanese government, have become famous for.
The following article sums this and many other issues pertinent to this matter very well:
http://www.uwsa.com/issues/trade/japanyes.html
I personally do not know how any American could read the preceding article and buy another Japanese product.
I will grant the Japanese that they developed many innovative manufacturing processes, including effective quality control methods, that deserve complement. But major "technological" developments, no. There simply aren't any as far as I am aware.
19th Mar 2009, 17:27
Ford doesn't "still make them", which is a shame because they were some of the most solid, reliable vehicles ever built. Our local police agencies sell these cars to the public when they reach 200,000 miles, and most people who buy them are very pleased to get them.
Many older people prefer driving larger cars such as the Crown Vic because of the comfort and much greater safety of larger, heavier cars. Many of our older friends have bought new Crown Vics and driven them for many years. They are virtually trouble-free, though a bit heavy on fuel.
I suppose now the older car buyer looking for a solid and safe heavy rear drive sedan will be out of luck.
19th Mar 2009, 17:34
If any of our governmental agencies ever bought vehicles from a Japanese company, I'd be on the phone to my elected representatives the second I found out about it DEMANDING that my tax dollars go to OUR OWN INDUSTRY. That is NOT a matter of "patriotism", it is a matter of my very hard-earned tax dollars being spent to enrich industries in other countries. That is just poor business. The quickest way any of my congressmen or other elected representatives can lose my vote is by hurting American industry, especially at a time like this.
19th Mar 2009, 20:11
If you want a good laugh, go visit in Florida to see the land of the dinosaurs. Tons of retired old people and lots of them are driving around in Grand Marquis. My parents have one too. When I visit, I enjoy driving it. I can't really say what it is. They just handle nice, even though I know there are lots of better cars out there now.
18th Mar 2009, 19:41
I had Crown Vics as company cars and they were outstanding. Long distance, stop starting many times daily with decent mileage.
I now have a company SUV and I miss the Crown Vics. I rented a brand new one in Florida recently and was very pleased with it. I haven't seen any Camry police cars, taxis anywhere, wonder why?
I can highly recommend Crown Vics, Mercury Marquis. The only comment is it is sometimes perceived as a seniors car, as is the Camry I might add. Very nice to drive and I was getting high MPG on the digital dash. V8 with overdrive gets great mileage and I would much rather have that than high revving, noisy, rough riding compacts with 4 cylinders overtaxed and overworked.