19th Mar 2009, 21:31

00:07 Half a million miles is NOT rare for a Ford. Right... Ford has surpassed Toyota and is equal to Honda in reliability... SURE.

Here's the news: Honda builds THE best engines on planet earth - period. And Ford HA! isn't even in the same galaxy when it comes to engine design, performance, quality, or reliability.

Honda's ONLY possible rival, the only other automaker anywhere that makes something even close, is Toyota. 25 and 30 year old Honda CRX's and Civics were (and ARE) getting a few to several hundred thousand miles on them regularly. Ford?!? has a recent history of building cars like the Contour and the Taurus, the Contour might be the best example... dead in the water at 70,000 miles generally with a blown up engine. Ford isn't, and for SURE wasn't in the last few decades, even in sight of Honda in the quality department. Don't know what else to say.

You know, raving about how good you think domestics are here on one single website isn't going to change the fact that the 'Big 3' are not big anymore, are BARELY surviving, and WOULD be bankrupt and non-existent if not for the government bailout; especially GM and Dodge. They'd be ancient history by now. Better choices came to the United States decades ago - they're called Toyota's and Honda's.

20th Mar 2009, 07:51

"The only reason Ford still makes them is for police cars and cab drivers."

Actually Ford DOESN'T still make them. I checked CR and Ford's own site. CR shows it as a discontinued model and Ford doesn't have it listed among its cars anymore. Maybe they still make a police version or something. But it doesn't look like there is still a consumer Crown Vic.

20th Mar 2009, 08:46

"I've never seen a Toyota with half a million miles on it."

I remember an article on the "million mile club". In it there were a number of 80s Toyota pickups (22R engine I think). I haven't mentioned it before because I can't remember where I read it. I just remember the article and the picture of a guy holding up his million mile sign when his odo ticked over the magical number.

Really, though, you could nurse many vehicles over half a million miles. The question is what engine are you on? Transmission? How many rebuilds?

That has been a forte of domestic trucks. They can be fixed or rebuilt relatively cheaply with the abundant availability of aftermarket, rebuilt, or junkyard parts. They have also been easier to work on in the past with many a shadetree mechanic able to do passable work on them. So parts are more abundant and cheaper. Those with the skill to work on them are also more available.

These facts make it more possible and reasonable to repair rather than replace an older domestic truck. It's not that they're built for a million miles of service, but they can be MADE to last that long. It is a real consideration for someone who wants, for whatever reason, to keep their truck a long, long time.

Newer imports are so complicated and have such high parts cost that it becomes uneconomical to continue to repair them (for my family this has happened at somewhere between 200,000 and 240,000 miles).

The engines in ours were still in good shape as far as oil use was concerned. Neither one used ANY. But both started to have problems with head gaskets and other odds and ends (like alternators and A/C for example). Nickels and dimes (by the hundreds) were required to keep them going. It simply became too expensive and troublesome to keep them on the road. If they had been easier to work on and the parts had been less expensive, they might still be on the road.

20th Mar 2009, 10:57

21:31: I like the VTEC engine Honda (not any Toyotas) but there is no full size truck, and I hate deplorable Honda transmission issues.

Toyota sold few full sizes before, and certainly not currently as compared to domestics.

Have you even drove any, or is it somehow car discussions over and over on a full size truck review?

There is no import that can accommodate my full size truck application (for towing). Think a Honda can be a full size, so why discuss here? And the Tundra is limited also.

Ignoring applications does not fit many of us that buy actually full size trucks and market share. Lousy warranty does not help either to make any change, even if it was a candidate for myself and many of my friends that have new full sizes beyond the Tundras range.

20th Mar 2009, 11:01

Well, then why isn't there a major outcry about what brand of electronic equipment, etc. that governments are using? Your hard earned dollars are already enriching foreign industries. Your tax dollars are also being used to support foreign countries. That might just be poor business too. Why draw the line at cars only?

Furthermore (the lack of) "patriotism" was the idea (and word) brought up by yourself or someone else describing individuals who don't support American manufacturers. Then it was said that this lack of support (un-patriotism) was poor business... EXACTLY the same argument you made just now. So if this "poor business" practice is unpatriotic for individuals, it would be many times so for a government agency.

Using (presumably) your own argument, it's either "poor business" for both an individual and a government or "unpatriotic" for both. But the argument that it's one thing for the individual and completely different for the government lacks consistency. I was merely using the preferred word used by those who are making a similar claim to the one I referred to.

Otherwise, your comment furthers my point and provides an example of the belief structure to which I alluded.

20th Mar 2009, 12:09

I'm 19 and the very proud owner of a fully loaded 1998 Crown Victoria LX. Go ahead and drive all the Japanese junk you want, while I'm cruising around in a safer more reliable vehicle with a much classier-sounding name. Most people my age drive foreign trash, but I'm smarter than that.

20th Mar 2009, 12:22

But at the same time, domestic vehicles are just as complicated and in my opinion more difficult to repair. Good case in point is my brother's former truck, a Ford Ranger. On my Tacoma, there are four spark plugs with four spark plug wires, all inline on top of the block and within easy reach. It takes me maybe 5-10 minutes to change the plugs, wires, cap, and rotor. The distributor is even placed up front where I don't have to lean over. In fact, the water pump, alternator, oil fill and dip stick, belt idler pulleys and other regular maintenance items are all within easy reach, bolted or screwed on with a minimal amount of bolts, which are only 2 sizes (10 and 14 Metric). Additionally, all of the bolts are plated with corrosion resistant anodized coating making them easy to loosen since they don't seize with rust.

In comparison, my Brother's truck also had a 4 cylinder engine, but with 8 spark plugs mounted haphazardly on the engine block and in almost impossible to access locations. The whole engine bay was the same, which was that seemingly everything was just slapped in there with no regard for repairing or dismantling it. Doing even small tasks took forever. The wires and hoses were all over the place. The bolts were just painted steel and we broke many of them off trying to get them loose. The thing was a nightmare.

So the old-fashioned assumption that modern domestics are super-simple is an outright myth, and in fact the opposite is true.