23rd Mar 2009, 21:34
Oops...got that wrong, I think. I meant that Toyota and Lexus were #4 and #3. Also my prior comment DID get posted elsewhere, heh, heh... my bad. :)
Congrats to Ford. Their stuff is starting to burnish the blue oval again.
23rd Mar 2009, 22:13
10:25 Actually, they last longer than 2 miles. They actually last about 175,000 miles longer (at least) than any engine in a Chevy, Ford, or Dodge.
The 22re may not have enough horsepower to haul a load of blocks, but it'll still be running for many years after a Chevy, Ford, or Dodge engine has died and is incapable of pulling it's own weight, because it resides in a junkyard.
23rd Mar 2009, 22:19
21:39 Your friend does not have a better car. He has a Ford car, which have proven to be unreliable despite the promises of their advertising, which he apparently fell for.
Toyota and Honda cars have a proven track record for being the best of the best, which is why they are the best selling cars in the United States. Your 'friend' made a mistake, as did you for advising him to buy a Ford car. He will regret his decision, as most Ford owners do, usually soon rather than later.
24th Mar 2009, 10:06
This is a great example of the kind of comments that encourage people to avoid Japanese vehicles. Every knowledgeable buyer knows that domestic vehicles do not "fall apart" at 70,000 miles. They are under warranty for 100,000 miles anyway. To see such baseless comments as the one cited above, with no data to support such ludicrous claims, instantly destroys the credibility of the import fan and has just the opposite influence on readers. It makes them realize that the import supporters have no real argument, which makes it obvious that the domestic is the better choice.
If you have never owned a full-sized truck or more than one domestic, there is absolutely no basis for any criticism of other vehicles. Many comments on here are from people like myself who have owned both imports and domestics and have real-world experience with new models. There are also numerous references to all sorts of evidence supporting the positions of domestic supporters. All this carries a credibility that baseless, unfounded comments only serves to reinforce.
24th Mar 2009, 12:13
Okay, okay, this is getting ridiculous!
To - 23rd Mar 2009, 22:19 - Your bias is clouding your reasoning!
I own one import and one domestic. My wife owns a Lexus.
Our imports are no better or no worse than our domestic.
Therefore our domestic is no better or no worse than our imports.
By the way our domestic (a Jeep) has over 140,000 on it and is still going strong.
My wife's Lexus despite changing the oil every 3,000 to 4,000 miles needed an engine at 100,000 miles, many sensors have gone at astronomical costs to replace. Is it a bad car? No - it is a machine - machines break, no matter how well they may have been engineered.
Our other import is a Saab - Saabs are routinely bashed on this site for being unreliable. My Saab has been extremely reliable. In fact it has been a great car.
I've owned many imports and many domestics over the years. Some good, some bad. I don't think domestics are bad cars.
I don't think imports are bad cars.
To me this debate is not really about cars, it is about egos.
I think it is ridiculous!
24th Mar 2009, 15:31
"Every knowledgeable buyer knows that domestic vehicles do not "fall apart" at 70,000 miles. They are under warranty for 100,000 miles anyway."
As mentioned above, only GMs have a 5yr/100,000 mile powertrain warranty. Ford has a similar warranty to Toyota: 5yr/60,000. Dodge has a lifetime/unlimited mile warranty that isn't transferable. All have a 3yr/36,000 mile bumper-to-bumper warranty.
By the way, a 3yr/36,000 mile powertrain warranty DOES transfer to a buyer of a low miles used Chrysler product. I don't mean to suggest that they get NO warranty but the lifetime/unlimited warranty doesn't apply to used Chrysler products.
24th Mar 2009, 16:17
Cars? This is a full size truck review. Honda has absolutely zero full size trucks and are we on Civics, Corollas again?
I have 3 specific applications which indicated a new full size truck only (the topic of this review). I do not want a small car or a small truck, in fact have zero application for either. I have towing applications and need an open full size truck bed.
There could potentially have been a substitution for a large SUV class 3 hitch, preferably Hybrid, but certainly not the perpetual small 2.2 cars, 4 cylinders compact and small miniature trucks. It's an impossible application.
If you wish to recommend otherwise it would involve buying both a full size truck and a small vehicle with limited applications (to buy and maintain 2 vehicles, and insure both).
The focus on vehicles outside the review instead of full size trucks is not going to sway a purchase either. I have personally ridden as a passenger, but it does not instill confidence if you do not have the confidence to buy, own and comment on direct ownership.
These 2009 vehicles cost a lot of money today. Perhaps the actual owners could spend some time on here vs. passerbys or their passengers or third hand think so's. In the interim we are hearing about the 2.2 block as if it's a full size truck godsend.
24th Mar 2009, 16:31
The 22RE is not made anymore. While it was one of Toyota's better motors (which is not saying much), the new generation of Toyota motors are pure unmitigated crap. I am sure I do not have to repeat all of the reasons for this that people have already mentioned (e.g., consumer affairs, etc.).
24th Mar 2009, 21:56
10:06 My comment isn't baseless at all. It's founded on the fact that, until I wised up, I used to buy only Big 3 vehicles. I would have been on here defending them too, no matter how much they broke down, it was still a good, old, American Chevy, and that would have been enough for me to justify my block-headed reasoning and neglect of the facts.
Then I bought a Toyota and had the experience of what it is to own a well built vehicle. Haven't bought a Ford, Chevy, or Dodge since, and most likely, I never will. I've exchanged enough money with them in my lifetime and gotten unreliable junk in return each time but one.
I am not biased at all. I will admit that my '95 Dodge Dakota was a good truck. Granted, it was nothing compared to my Toyota's. It was a typical Chrysler gas guzzling tank, but it was fairly reliable. That is the ONLY one of my domestics that wasn't a complete piece of junk.
My Ford Ranger was pure garbage. You couldn't give me another one.
Had a few Chevy's, all junk. Then had three consecutive Toyota's over a 15 year span and spent exactly $90 in repairs on all three. A starter in a Tacoma.
I spent THOUSANDS to keep the Big 3 junk running, as is common with most people that I know. You guys can type in whatever you want. Real world experience is enough to prove differently for me. Toyota is by FAR the better vehicle. I could not care less who is deterred from buying one because of my comments. If someone buys a GM because of something I said, then they have clearly not sought out the facts or done their research, and it will be their loss and misfortune to own one. Even if you miraculously get one that isn't scrap after 100,000 miles, it's still worth nothing on trade in. The Toyota will be.
And for good reason; they're built better, last longer, have more life left in them at that point, and are worth more because of it. Go ahead and buy a GM, Ford, or Dodge. It's your loss, whether you admit it or not.
23rd Mar 2009, 21:25
"I'll support the best car makers in the world: Ford and GM."
Some of you might be interested in checking out the rest of JDPower rankings. I posted some of the info from their site, but it got removed for some reason or hasn't been posted yet.
Toyota and Lexus are rated #3 and #2. Ford is also rated highly when you average their brands... not quite as high as Toyota but easily within shooting distance.
GM isn't doing as well. If you average their brands (including Buick) they still come out below average. So there's still room for improvement. Some of their vehicles and brands are clearly world class. Others have some improving to do.
Still, there is a 3 year delay before the data is considered by JD Power to be conclusive. It's very possible that today's new vehicles will do better.