8th Apr 2009, 21:41

12:28 Well, the fact is, if GM hadn't been making junk for the last 35 years, they wouldn't be in the sad position that they're in today. If they'd had the frame of mind to actually build cars and trucks that last, they'd be in good shape today, just like Toyota is, because they DID choose a philosophy that revolves around quality.

9th Apr 2009, 16:07

There is one point that I have to agree with "Tacoma Guy" on. Driving an old vehicle does save you money, particularly if you keep it well maintained and can handle some repairs yourself. However, unlike him, my choices for cheap, reliable, used cars have been Dodge and more recently Ford, which I have typically bought when 5-10 years old for less than a few thousand dollars. I'm not helping the economy any more than he is, except by having more discretionary spending in areas other than a car payment. On the other hand, my savings rate of 35% makes me feel okay about buying something when I need it.

9th Apr 2009, 19:51

Not true. The 14% is DOMESTIC MANUFACTURERS ONLY. Please review the book "The United States of Toyota" for the figures. The percentage of people directly or indirectly employed by foreign industrial concerns is minuscule. Also, if ANY of the Big Three go under, in all likelihood so will 90% of the independent parts manufacturers. Delphi had to file bankruptcy FOUR YEARS AGO due to Japan and China providing more cheaply built parts to the auto industry.

9th Apr 2009, 20:07

"The truth is that the surveys that are being done use different methods and emphasize different aspects of reliability."

Yes, exactly... and NONE of them are very accurate or even remotely reliable. And YES, people lie on every conceivable type of survey, even anonymous ones. Many people would rather hold on to their prejudiced views (as import fans do) than admit that a problem IS a problem. To the average import fan, a blown engine is "just a small issue" with Toyota, but a non-functioning cigarette lighter on a Taurus with 200,000 miles on it makes it "crap".

In college we had a wonderful course on "How to use research, statistics and sales data to lie effectively" I LOVED that course. It was so true to life. ALL companies skew statistics and research studies for their own benefit, and magazines and "unbiased" sources are just as bogus as any. Does ANYONE really believe the ratings in Consumer Reports or J.D. Powers are 100% accurate?? Give me a break! The ONLY reliable source for REAL accuracy in automotive reliability is ACTUAL FREQUENCY OF REPAIR RECORDS from dealers and outside service facilities, and getting ACCURATE records from EITHER foreign OR domestic dealers would be about as hard as finding a politician who tells the truth. It's NOT going to happen. God only knows how many bad engines Toyota has replaced in their vehicles in the past 5 years and ONLY God will know, because Toyota (OR Ford OR GM) aren't ABOUT to tell us!!

And yes, it's me, the Demigod (I LIKE that name, it's as big an ego trip as saying "LOOK AT ME! I DRIVE A BEEMER!"

10th Apr 2009, 10:58

I think we're probably on a similar wavelength, but approaching it differently, which is fine. Both of my vehicles are the absolute bottom of the barrel, no-frills econo models. My truck has crank windows, manual locks, a manual transmission, cloth seats, and so on. I bought the truck for its engine, with this particular engine rated as one of the best engines in the market. The truck was only around $9,500 new off the lot back in 1995. My Wife's car is much the same.

We make pretty good money and truthfully could be buying BMW's and Mercedes. But I don't care and would rather have the cheapest, most reliable vehicle that will do its job for 15-20 years before I buy another one. People in the US seem very concerned about their outward appearance and spend lots of money on cars to do so. There's nothing wrong with that, but at the end of the day it comes down to how long you want to work and what kind of retirement you want. As-is, we save almost 55% of our incomes and even though we're only in our late 20's, early 30's could probably buy a house with cash and have enough in retirement to be pretty well set by the time we're 60.

But had we done like a lot of people and insisted on buying the nicest car that our income could strain to afford every 5 years, we would probably be in debt right now, which in my opinion is the option most people take.

I can also see the benefit to your route because due to their positive reputation, Toyotas demand much higher prices than the same vintage Ford. In fact, I have a friend who buys a 2-3 year old Taurus every 4-5 years. It usually makes it to a little under 100k before some horrible mechanical mishap occurs at which point he sells it and gets another.The cars are almost disposable. Since the cars are dirt-cheap, he still saves more money than buying a new Camry or Accord every 10 years. So if you just want something cheap, domestic brands do offer value at some level.

10th Apr 2009, 11:12

19:47 as well as plenty of other recent posts... do any of you actually own a late model full size truck whatsoever? I am trying to keep abreast on late model full size truck and exact equals. Does 19:47 have an exact Tundra model with specs so that I can offer an exact comparison to my new GM Silverado (full size) It speaks again of Tacoma. And I suspect the following post is Tacoma again, as it's never specific enough to be proud of what they own... it's "Toyota" certainly not the Tundra or it would be referred to. I keep waiting for anyone else that has test driven new full sizes within the past year with any new developments. It would be nice to actually learn something... when you buy a new vehicle do you not look at exact equivalents?

Full size trucks is a very dedicated specific category, so who owns a new one to compare? It's a holiday weekend, how about some serious shoppers going out and test driving some full size 2009 models import and domestics vs. the same boring vague little car and little truck tirade.

I disagree on driving a full size truck forever, especially if you have a serious investment in tow and jeopardizing a breakdown on the road with aged components. I had to leave my boat once over a hundred miles away, rent a car and drive back twice.

As far as the great savings, what if you are successful, own a home not mortgaged, can buy a new vehicle without debt... should you ride about in some beater?

I am meticulous on maintenance, especially taking a boat 60 miles offshore... and that over maintenance reflects in my new vehicles as well. Every single component on a 250,000 mile vehicle has wear, and why dump major money and have other elements still old. If I cruised around solo, towed nothing, had all my sockets and tool boxes filled I could stand on the side of road all day. I am not doing that in hundred degree heat, heavy shore traffic and messing with some old crap beater. I certainly would not pay towing, non warranty repairs far from home, rent vehicles, worry about what I am towing with losing my outdrives, electronics etc. being swiped. Maybe someone else on here has a new full size truck that may tow boats, larger travel trailers etc long distances on weekends and cannot deal with the crap.

If I were commuting solo to work, I could call on my cell and leave a $1000 used 200,000 mile truck on the road and let them take it. I wouldn't even pay the towing or storage. It's broke and done for.

It would be nice to be specific and say you have a full size truck and why you own one, what specific purpose and applications and get off the economy car discussions. Applications come first with full size, if you do nor have one how can you understand others that have invested in one? When I read "Toyota" only anymore not the exact model I am willing to bet 99.9% that its a small car, small truck owner on a full size truck review. How about saying model owned on each comment please.