10th Apr 2009, 12:37

You ARE helping the economy by buying ANYTHING. Even though I'd never dream of stabbing my country in the back by buying a NEW import, I heartily ENCOURAGE people (who don't mind paying way too much) to buy USED imports from DOMESTIC dealers. When I recently bought my Fusion the local Ford dealer had a lot half full of Camrys that had been traded in on Fusions, as well as two Accords and a Tacoma Pre-runner SR-5. Buying one of those would be a boost to a local business, even if it was a less-than-ideal vehicle at a ridiculous price.

10th Apr 2009, 23:08

Apparently, I am 'Tacoma guy', so here's some more general comments on auto manufacturers as a result of my experience tonight...

I just had the misfortune of driving a brand new Chevy Aveo tonight. Long story short, left a wedding and drove the groom's Aveo from one place to another. He paid for this car the same price I paid for my new Hyundai Accent... and the Aveo is laughable. I literally felt bad for him as soon as I sat in it. This is the most cheap, tacky looking interior I've EVER seen.

My Accent is WORLDS ahead of this car. It just looks absolutely ridiculous, is designed absolutely ridiculously inside. It looks like a go cart inside. As cheap as possible. The engine noise is a joke. The vibration from the car when you downshift and hit 3500 rpms is a low pitch buzz that just settles in your ear and annoys the hell out of you.

There is NO styling whatsoever inside. Just a random collection of cheap looking parts tossed together. Typical Chevy. No wonder they're on their way out.

As a 3 time consecutive Toyota owner, I can tell you that my Accent, while a very good car, is no match for Toyota. This Aveo doesn't even enter in the running. No wonder the reviews it gets are all terrible. They should be. I don't know how he even drives it. Made me want to get out and push it over a cliff. If this is the best Chevy can do for what he paid for it, it's no wonder they have the reputation they do.

11th Apr 2009, 08:59

23:08 what possible benefit can be derived from a Aveo, Tacoma comment on a full size truck review for a tentative buyer? I keep hoping someone else has some new full size trucks that can comment on actual applications, daily experience etc. What you use it for, how it tows, handles, carries loads (full size truck).

Out of 1000 plus posts, very little if hardly a handful of people likely own a 2002 to present full size.

When you open a newspaper for example to buy a new full size truck, are you on the Aveo section? Or even better, why not read about Rolls Royce and then buy a small car/truck. There's absolutely no knowledge gained by other new full size truck owners comparing to exact equivalent full size trucks. Aveo... Tacoma, go carts, great, who's buying them on a full size truck review? Seems like a sounding board that has zero effect on us that test and really buy these vehicles.

I do not understand why someone with no interest ever in owning or has zero applications dictates what those that really own have late model full sizes. Have you ever carried what full sizes can, do you know how to tow, back up? Probably never and until you do why comment on zero application knowledge? It's the little train again wishing they could.

Please buy a new or newer full size and give us actual real world illustrations. Manufacturer, model, packages and why you ordered them and how they perform daily. There's some people that own full sizes or considering buying new(er) or they would not be hanging, dreaming so much on a full size truck review. I'd be on the Rolls Royce section.... if I never will buy, own, have actual daily experience, pick a high end dream car to comment and lust after. That is what I would do rather than devote so much time on a vehicle I am not ever going to own.

11th Apr 2009, 09:06

"Does 19:47 have an exact Tundra model with specs so that I can offer an exact comparison to my new GM Silverado (full size)"

I wrote 19:47. No I don't (and never have owned) a Tacoma. I sold my 2000 Tundra SR5 extended cab in Sept. I was just ASKING some questions. I wondered what you own and how it compares to new Tundra specs. I own a travel trailer and, like you, am wondering if someone has some actual experience with current model full-sized trucks has any cross-shopped-experience. When you are looking at trailering like I am, information about how they handle, drive, and perform over the long haul is in short supply. So I was just asking you about your experience.

You have a Silverado? How does it do? With what load weight and type? Have you had any problems? What do you use for a hitch? I've used a weight distribution type (which is the only reason a 2000 Tundra could pull my 6500lb trailer -- it's rated to pull it, but the tongue weight was too much for good handling).

The new Tundra boasts competitive specs (I've heard it can tow trailers up to 10,300lbs??), but anyone who trailers can tell you that the numbers don't necessarily tell you all you need to know.

11th Apr 2009, 10:34

Demi-god (It IS a good name :) ) : Well I can't comment from the "import fan's" perspective since, as I said before, I not one. Apart from that we're just going to have to agree to disagree then because fanaticism (import and domestic) goes both ways and cancels out the effect to some unknown degree.

"Does ANYONE really believe the ratings in Consumer Reports or J.D. Powers are 100% accurate??"

No more so than ANY decent research. Simply proving that someone CAN lie using statistics doesn't prove that they ARE. The obvious answer to you is "prove it".

Indeed, you seem to have drawn a false conclusion from your course... to whit, that all research is bogus. Your college course has been affirmed by users on this thread alone... those who use partial truths, overly narrow sources, and partial statistics that affirm their viewpoint while leaving out the rest that maybe even tells the opposite story (then, when the rest of the info is quoted, often attacking the very firms from whom they got the stats in the first place).

Simply discrediting ALL statistics leaves you with no basis for (purchase) decisions without reference to sources that are decidedly suspect due to their sample size or personal biases. In fact, if you simply removed the term "domestic" and inserted "foreign", many of the domestic fans' arguments would still sound valid because THEY AREN'T RESEARCH BASED COMMENTS. If you discredit statistics, you have perpetual argument and no resolution --- nothing but opinion... you'll rail against "Tacoma Guy" but be forced to use his arguments (in reverse).

Again, we'll just have to agree to disagree because you seem to think that all studies are biased just because they COULD be... and I doubt that conclusion. We're at an impasse. I don't think that the basis for doubt should simply be a disagreement with a statistical outcome.

Stats say that ALL of the trucks involved are of nearly equal quality and that Toyota and Ford are at the top of their respective games quality-wise. But you won't accept the possibility that Toyota is any good... so... by extension ALL research showing otherwise must be faulty; All Toyota owners must be brainwashed by "add hype"; All of them are willing to lie about it; Most of them apply inconsistent standards to vehicular quality; All of them are unpatriotic; And any of them who have the unmitigated temerity to mention some problems they had with a domestic vehicle MUST BE bald-faced liars.

This seems to be the illogical package that has been being presented here on this forum as though it were somehow conclusive. I hope your friends enjoy their Fusions. They are very fine cars... according to the stats.