7th Jul 2008, 09:16
16:55 GM has a reputation for making cheap, crappy cars. Whether or not you admit it, it's still true.
And please don't reply and ask me to 'prove' that statement.
In general, in this country, GM and Ford now have a well-earned, lousy reputation for making disposable cars and trucks. Granted, for whatever reason, their cars are much worse.
Toyota and Honda especially are the gold standard. Please explain to me why they've gotten so many more favorable ratings than the domestics in the last 20 years, or why a Toyota holds a far higher percentage of its resale value through the years. I'd love to hear your explanation of that.
I'll be glad to go ahead and tell you why: they're built better, and have more life left in them as time passes than the disposable domestics do, and are therefore, obviously, worth more money as they get older.
You're only kidding yourself here. Funny how even GM and Ford concede that Toyota quality is above theirs. How you ask? Every piece of crap car they advertise is advertised as a 'serious competitor' to the Camry and Accord. The problem with saying that is, it's never true.
I even heard a Ford commercial that stated, and I quote... "now as reliable as Toyota". Which means, even in Ford's opinion of THEIR OWN CARS, they're admitting that Toyota quality exceeds theirs. Everybody already knows this, and, again, the problem with that commercial is that, yes, Ford self-admittedly wasn't as reliable as any Toyota, and they still aren't.
So, go ahead and write me another list of domestic cars with high mileage. I believe anything I read. If all of that is true, it still means nothing. Those kind of mileages, while an accomplishment for a Ford or Chevy, mean very little to a Toyota owner. We get it practically every time, get better gas mileage doing it, and our cars are worth more every time on trade-in, excluding whatever domestic cars that might be considered classics or collectors.
7th Jul 2008, 11:23
I agree, in part, with commenter 16:35, who is obviously quite well off (not everyone can afford $4 a gallon gas with a 7 mpg SUV).
We own a mid-sized GM SUV and it would cost way more to "panic trade" for a more economical car than the additional fuel cost for another 150,000 miles. Of course, ours gets 24mpg highway and 19 city, so the increase in fuel mileage of a smaller car wouldn't be all that much.
With that said, we are like all too many people in that our SUV carries only ONE person (my wife) 99.9% of the time. Even if we had 4 passengers, our small compact easily accommodates 4 people comfortably.
When it does come time to trade we WILL buy a 30mpg+ vehicle. High gas prices are here to stay, and the environment is in serious trouble. There is simply no excuse to buy something that just aggravates the situation. Although we, too, can afford $4 a gallon gas, this is our last SUV.
7th Jul 2008, 15:54
"6th Jul 2008, 11:50.
The point is, I will not allow you to condemn me or anyone else for having the brains to buy a better product even though it isn't made in the states."
At the same time, you should expect to be challenged when making broad-brush statements based on personal bias, referenced only by selective quotations and anecdotes.
The fact that you deliver these statements in an highly opinionated manner that is dismissive of the experience of others does not help you influence anyone, and should be expected to draw criticism.
I, for one, keep meticulous records of every vehicle I have ever owned, and know in detail what my average cost per month, average cost per mile, and maintenance intervals are. I even have the equations that describe the ownership costs for my vehicles. Thus, when you make a statement to the effect that "All Fords are junk" or "All domestics are junk", I have the documented evidence to dispute you. Some of us simply feel compelled to set the record straight when someone attempts to perpetuate this great myth of "unreliable domestics" and "infallible Japanese superiority."
8th Jul 2008, 10:50
"The point is, I will not allow you to condemn me or anyone else for having the brains to buy a better product even though it isn't made in the states."
I have an IQ that is 20 points higher than MENSA genius level. I think that qualifies me as "having brains". I buy domestics because my past domestics were reliable and my imports weren't. To me, that is a VERY intelligent choice. Even if it could somehow be demonstrated that imports were better, I'd still buy American because I'm knowledgeable enough about economics to know that the destruction of a major American industry would have very drastic consequences for ALL of us, including individuals who base their entire automotive knowledge on one 10-year-old truck.
6th Jul 2008, 16:55
"5th Jul 2008, 08:58.
11:29 I'm an American too, and gladly. I never claimed that I wanted to see American industry of any kind fail. Too bad it already has.
If I'm 'spouting venom' at the Big 3, it's because they don't care enough to make vehicles of the same quality as the imports I've owned. They should be embarrassed as a whole at the kind of cars and trucks they made through the 80's and 90's, which were just an embarrassment next to what Toyota and Honda were and are offering."
I remember when you first started commenting. You keep claiming that all domestic vehicles of the 1980's and 1990's were so terrible, but I seriously doubt that you have driven any of those vehicles. I'll be glad to fill you in on the "terribly unreliable" domestic vehicles from that era that my family owned.
* 1980 Plymouth Volarè station wagon: purchased for $1,200 with 60,000 miles and driven to 180,000 miles before selling it to a family friend who needed a good car.
* 1983 Chevy Cavalier station wagon: purchased for $350 with 100,000 miles and driven to 210,000 miles when it was sold in favor of something with more room.
* 1984 Plymouth Reliant station wagon: purchased for $1,500 with 65,000 miles and driven to 215,000 miles before being sold to an uncle who continued to drive it until he died.
* 1985 Dodge Ramcharger: purchased for $2,500 with 163,000 miles and driven to 260,000 miles when it was sold to somebody who needed a dependable plow truck.
* 1989 Chevy Van: purchased for $5,000 with 75,000 miles and driven to 190,000 miles when it was sold, in perfect running condition, for $4,500
* 1990 Pontiac 6000 station wagon: purchased for $700 with 120,000 miles and driven to 220,000 miles, at which time the transmission locked up.
* 1994 Cadillac Seville: purchased for $1,600 with 150,000 miles and still running perfectly with 200,000 miles on it.
* 1997 Mercury Sable station wagon: purchased for $6,000 with 40,000 miles and still running perfectly with 190,000 miles on it.
Oh yes, those lousy domestic cars of the '80s and '90s are clearly sooo unreliable and expensive to maintain! It's just a wonder that we haven't flocked to the preciously perfect imports! Give me a break! No doubt you'll reply with some reference as to how "Car and Driver" didn't like those cars.