1st Aug 2008, 17:02
15;50 Exactly right. I am a Toyota owner, this is a Toyota site, and I read here because I have an interest in Toyota trucks.
If you want to drive a piece of crap GM or Ford, so be it. I don't care. If you want to discuss crappy Ford and GM trucks, go do it on a Ford/GM site, where somebody might care about that junk.
I drive Toyota's because I know they're the best vehicles on the market alongside Honda's. I don't care about how many miles are on a junk F-150 or that somebody thinks it's a better truck than a Toyota. It isn't, I know that, but if you like them, drive them. Your loss, not mine.
2nd Aug 2008, 07:34
The GM 3.8 V6 is one of the greatest engines. I have had them in Pontiacs and even my first 21 foot Starcraft boat. Extremely thrifty and bulletproof.
My 6000LE and 90 Bonneville (still owned by a friend) are still doing long commutes to work. I think the Pontiac 6000 was built too good with its great drivetrain.
As far as transmissions, GM's 6 speed manual cruises with high mpg for hours on trips. Even mated with a large V8 the engineers know how to bring the RPM down to barely lope on the interstate. And much more fun to drive.
2nd Aug 2008, 13:14
To 14:30: You requested one article proving domestics are reliable. This article has been referred to DOZENS of times (and always ignored by import owners), but the October 2007 issue if Consumer Reports features cars (and trucks) that have gone over 200,000 miles with no problems.
True to its obvious bias, Consumer Reports chose to show a Honda Civic on the cover, which actually had the SHORTEST life of any of the featured cars. The "star" of the article inside the magazine (where casual browsers in a book store would never see it) was none other than a FORD RANGER with 488,000 trouble-free miles. It had the LONGEST life of any vehicle featured. Then, true to its obvious bias, Consumer Reports OMITTED the Ford from its list of "cars likely to go 200,000 miles". This is typical of ALL car magazines, which HAVE to acknowledge that domestics are more reliable, but REFUSE to do it in an honest an open way.
This issue of Consumer Reports is a typical example of the kind of designed-in bias in reporting that fuels the myth that imports are somehow better. Magazine reviews and owners surveys are NOT objective or reliable. When a biased magazine like Consumer Reports lists the Ford Fusion as the most reliable car, that is a miracle and on a par with the parting of the Red Sea, and HAS to be taken as true. When they show a Honda Civic on the cover of a magazine touting 200,000 mile vehicles when it had the SHORTEST life of any featured in the actual article, THAT is business as usual.
I'm still waiting for those non-existent frequency of repair reports that import companies will never DARE release. Don't give me biased opinions, give me real data that was NOT on some form filled out by a Toyota owner who has replaced 3 transmissions and two engines in the first 20,000 miles but thinks the car is just Heavenly.
2nd Aug 2008, 14:16
I'd much rather take a long trip in a new Ford F-150 Harley Davidson Edition Pickup than some light bouncy bare bones Tacoma.
2nd Aug 2008, 17:09
Another interesting bit of news: Consumer leasing rates the resale value of the Tundra LOWER than the Silverado, and the sales of the Ford Focus last quarter went up by a greater percentage than Corolla and Civic COMBINED. I guess fewer people are being taken in by ad hype.
2nd Aug 2008, 19:15
17:02... please go to consumeraffairs.com and look at Toyota/Honda issues. I know you refuse to look. What's with the head in the sand import attitude? The only way it sinks home is when it hits hard personally.
I see the reliability below average, and parts and labor high. I no longer see the import cachet or whatever you wish to call it as a reason to remain today.
3rd Aug 2008, 09:44
13:14 Well, I asked a domestic owner for a review from a credible magazine that states that domestics are more reliable than imports, and what you gave me is yet another article that PROVES ME RIGHT. A Honda Civic on the cover, and more articles that explain the obvious fact that imports are more likely to go over 200,000 than domestics. I already know this fact, and the article you presented me just backs that up!
Well, that is the way it is. Honda's, Toyota's, Nissan's, etc. ARE more likely, and almost always DO get more mileage than domestics. Unbelievable; the article you presented us all with SAYS THIS.
I suppose I'll ask AGAIN: show me an article in a major publication that states that domestics are of higher quality or reliability than imports. ONCE AGAIN, you can't, because it isn't true.
3rd Aug 2008, 15:34
13:14.
Thanks for pointing out the Consumer Reports Article. They are so unscientific, agenda driven and biased against American manufacturers, I do not even consider them to be a serious publication. But, even they are starting to reluctantly publish articles such as the one documenting the quality of Ranger, to save what little credibility they have left after being naively recommending Toyotas for so long, which contrary to their "ratings" are now self destructing before their owners eyes all over the place.
I am not surprised the their top vehicle was a Ranger either. My brother's Ranger has 403,000 trouble free miles on the original engine and transmission, runs great and burns no oil.
4th Aug 2008, 10:33
The tired Domestic vs Import - which is sort of vague anyway since I assume we're talking more specifically about Toyota and Honda versus GM and Ford, is not going to have much relevance soon anyway. As anyone can see, GM's stock is worth 1/3rd of what it was last year. Both GM and Chrysler are stopping their leasing programs, which is a very bad sign in of itself. Ford just reported their worst quarter. Ever.
To give you an idea of just how bad GM is doing, their stock is now worth less than half of what Toll Bros stock is. So an automaker is under-performing a homebuilder, which as we all know are getting royally pounded to bits due to the housing crash.
To be fair, all automakers from BMW, Toyota, Ford, GM, and Honda are seeing lower sales in the US. But these companies are at least still earning income. They also have an attractive portfolio. GM and Ford have neither. GM and Ford both lack competitive small and mid-sized cars. They also both lack small or mid-sized trucks, which is almost fatal in a truck market these days.
Additionally, both are very late to the game with a real hybrid vehicle. GM has also been bragging about this new Chevy Volt plugin hybrid. But at the same time, Toyota has a redesign of the Prius coming out at the same time, and they're being totally silent about it. If history serves as a reminder, Toyota will likely have a superior hybrid with little fanfare. It'll simply work, and work well, and GM will be left behind again.
1st Aug 2008, 14:30
12:43 More stories..."my family's domestics have 900,000 miles and no repairs". And more of YOUR OPINIONS about GM and domestics in general.
Well, you certainly are entitled to your opinions, the problem still remains that you are incorrect about reliability concerning imports and domestics.
Need I be specific AGAIN? Pick up ANY issue of Consumer Reports, Edmunds, etc. over the last... (ohh, I'll be conservative here)... let's say 10 years, in which they give overall ratings of auto manufacturers in terms of quality or reliability. Whether they give it a number, assign it a rating of 'stars' 1-5, or whatever, you WILL read that Japanese-manufactured automobiles have ALWAYS topped the lists. Consistently.
Let me make this clear again: YOUR STORIES about your family's domestics, their non-existent repair records, etc., don't mean anything.
So, I'll ask again, as another commenter did: show me ONE article, anywhere credible in a major publication, that rates ANY domestic automaker as higher in quality than Toyota or Honda overall. (This doesn't mean picking out ONE vehicle by Ford/GM that received a higher rating than ONE particular Toyota).
You will find that Toyota and Honda, overall, are rated, by experts, as being higher in quality than Ford, GM, or Dodge every time. Period. No more stories about Ford mileages and repair records that are impossible to prove. Show me ONE article to the contrary.