6th Aug 2008, 09:33
In regard to the comment about brake pads on a Civic. Here again, we have clear evidence of a complete lack of real knowledge of domestic vehicles (or imports, for that matter). I've changed the brake pads on numerous vehicles (including the Civic) and virtually ALL of them (yes, even those "crappy" domestics) swivel up. There is virtually no difference at all except that the older Civic pads are much smaller and under-engineered. I recently changed the pads on a late model GM, and YES, they swiveled up on a mounting bolt just like that "divine", "perfect" Civic. Again, the only difference was that the GM pads were bigger, heavier and much beefier.
As for those "cheap mountings" that we've read about before on here, anyone who has ever actually compared a domestic exhaust hanger bracket to a Toyota could never in their wildest dreams call the domestic "cheaper". Instead of a little metal rod that swivels in a tiny bracket on the Toyota, the domestics, such as Ford, use a compound mount composed of heavy metal brackets top and bottom joined by a flexible heavy duty rubber strip. It costs far more to build, provides more movement to prevent flex cracks, and allows a far wider range of movement in all directions than the Toyota mounts.
Having driven a brand new Toyota off a dealer's lot that had defective brakes (pulled violently to the left), pieces of interior trim that were falling off, and an engine that surged and stalled repeatedly, I find it more than just slightly funny that anyone could consider these cars in any way, shape or form, better than something like the solid, world-class Ford Fusion or Chevy Malibu. I've driven both imports and domestics. The domestics are so much better that there is just no comparison.
6th Aug 2008, 13:56
09:33 As I said, this is a '95 Civic. I've owned two mid-90's domestics, and NEITHER of their brake assemblies were set up that way. Maybe Ford and Chevy FINALLY got it together enough to design brakes the way Honda did 20 years ago. Too bad the engines still suck.
As far as the issue of the brackets, you can study the undercarriage of a Toyota or Honda and find so many more places that they've properly secured things when a Ford or GM vehicle doesn't have them.
6th Aug 2008, 15:06
"Lift the hood on any Toyota; let's say a 1985 Corolla. Lift the hood on any brand new domestic vehicle. As always, the engine and components, to anyone with a trained eye, are well thought out as far as placement, and even have an aesthetic value in their arrangement."
For the longest time, including throughout the entire 80's, American cars were far more technologically advanced than Toyota. American car manufacturers, particularly GM, were far ahead of Toyota in developing advanced fuel injection systems and electronic engine control systems, while Toyota was still using carburetors and vacuum control technology (which they copied from everyone else) right up until the 90's.
I do not find any aesthetic value in antiquated garbage.
6th Aug 2008, 17:51
I tilted back the hood on my sons Viper RT/V10 and admired the engineering technology. And it brought back memories of doing the same with a 63 split Vette. The 12 year old you are describing must have been a genius. What magnificent engine am I missing on Toyota's lot? Getting bored again.
6th Aug 2008, 22:01
That was kinda funny about the caliper just hanging by the brake lines. What happens when you press the brake? Do you find the brake lines wrapped around the axle? Or perhaps they are 2" steel reinforced brake lines? :) Whatever... check your facts dude. Some brakes ARE easier to change, but not for that reason -- thank goodness.
7th Aug 2008, 12:41
We are a multiple car family and have had 3 or 4 vehicles at the same time for the past 25 years. We've bought 10 new domestic vehicles since 1985. We've had 2 Chrysler products, 2 GM products and 6 Fords. The TOTAL repairs for ALL TEN has been a measly $170 (Front brake rotors on an '88 Dodge). I'm not counting brake pads, batteries or tires, just items that were not due to normal wear. The rotors on the Dodge were warped. I normally go at least 75,000-100,000 miles before having to replace the brake pads on any of my domestics.
We've never had one single mechanical failure on ANY of these vehicles, so I always get a bit of a chuckle out of all these remarks about how "crappy" and "unreliable" domestic vehicles are. In fact, I laugh all the way to the bank!
7th Aug 2008, 14:33
22:01 Try and read/comprehend the original comment again. I said I CHANGED brakes. That involves taking out caliper bolts to remove the brake pads, dude!... on my previous domestics, when both caliper bolts were removed, there is nothing left keeping the caliper from falling out onto the ground other than the brake lines. The Honda, of the same year, earlier in fact, had the assembly I described; top caliper bolt is fixed so it swivels up with the bottom one removed.
5th Aug 2008, 17:03
20:34 I have poked and prodded in and around new Toyota's, and as usual, they are top of the line. Much better than Ford, Chevy, or Dodge, as well as the rest of the imports other than Honda's.
You may call it 'laughable', but then I guess a Ford or GM would have to be 'extra-laughable', as the Toyota is obviously built better. Any Toyota. It's just the way they're assembled, and the design in the first place.
Lift the hood on any Toyota; let's say a 1985 Corolla. Lift the hood on any brand new domestic vehicle. As always, the engine and components, to anyone with a trained eye, are well thought out as far as placement, and even have an aesthetic value in their arrangement.
Open the hood on a domestic. It looks like a 12 year old kid stuffed a bunch of parts and wires under there and slammed it shut. Which isn't too far from the reality of it.
Same goes for the rest of the car. Take a long look at both. With the Toyota, under the hood and underneath the vehicle, you'll find a bracket here, and hanger there, that you won't find on a domestic. Because they're built cheaply and they cut costs where Toyota puts the extra time, money, thought, and simple consideration for the future owner of that vehicle into the design.
I recently changed front brake pads and rotors on my girlfriend's '95 Civic (do the math, a 13 year old car), and the design is so much better than any domestic that Ford and GM should be embarrassed. Unlike a domestic, where the caliper just hangs there by the brake lines, the top caliper bolt on the Honda is permanently fixed, and the caliper swivels up and stays in place; you change the pads, and rotate it back over the rotor.
If you know the details that make the difference between a good vehicle, and a throw-away domestic, you will find things like this all over a Toyota/Honda, and never on a Ford or Chevy. So.. if you're telling me a Ford or Chevy is better built than either of those imports, you are simply wrong.