26th Sep 2008, 17:29

Well, I usually don't factor patriotism into my vehicle purchases. Seems a little pointless. I pay my taxes and contribute to the economy.

When I buy a vehicle, I look at their past examples, which is why I avoid Ford, Chevy, and Dodge. There are imports I'd stay clear of too, but Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Subaru, and now Hyundai make better cars than the 'domestics' do. And Toyota makes better trucks.

29th Sep 2008, 10:51

As stated earlier, I think patriotism has more to do with many of those who claim that their GM and Ford products are "better" than Toyotas and Hondas.

You can tell stories about an Uncle who owned a Chevette that ran for 300,000 miles or a 85' Taurus that never had a problem and ran 500,000 miles as proof. But the real proof is that Honda and Toyota didn't gain the reputation for reliability on pure gossip alone. They were a totally new, unproven car companies when they were introduced to the US market 30+ years ago, and since then earned their reputation fair and square, through quality engineering, and intelligent product development. Those are the facts.

You cannot deny that Honda and Toyota build excellent products, and I also know that despite what you admit, also realize that they also build BETTER products than any of the big three.

30th Sep 2008, 11:03

Maybe Honda and Toyota make good products. Who knows? Makes no difference to me.

What I do know is that my 2002 Ford with 98,500 miles runs and drives just as well today as when it was new, and has never needed any repair.

I have done routine filter and fluid changes, and changed two turn signal bulbs. With reliability like that, why would I look elsewhere? Seriously, why?

I also know that my Ford was about $7,000 less than the comparable year and mileage Honda, Nissan, or Toyota models. Again, why would I pay $7,000 more for something that has no better reliability?

You may talk about "quality" but that's subjective. I'm happy with my Ford, saved 7 grand, and have never had the slightest problem with it. Can you seriously tell me that I'm missing out on something by not driving Japanese? No, you can't.

30th Sep 2008, 11:10

"They were a totally new, unproven car companies when they were introduced to the US market 30+ years ago..."

Yes, and I think the people who sing praises about them do so because they always think the grass is greener on the other side of the fence, regarding imported products.

Moreover, I do deny that they are quality products, both from personal experience and the massive amount of complaints being lodged against them. Take a look at Consumer Affairs as an example:

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/toyota_engine.html

None of my domestic vehicles have ever had an engine fail before 50,000, or ever failed period. That is not the case with Toyota.

30th Sep 2008, 11:56

A lot has been made of the fact that some GM dealerships are going out of business. Last week one of our largest ones folded. Then, this morning, the paper carried an article about one of our largest TOYOTA dealerships going out of business. This is pretty clear evidence that it is purely reasons of economics rather than any falsely perceived ideas of higher quality on the part of Toyota.

Nor can it be blamed on gas-guzzling vehicles, as Toyota only makes a handful (Sequoia, Tundra, and Land Cruiser). The economic woes we are facing will ultimately affect EVERYONE doing business here. Frankly, I hope to see MORE Toyota dealers close, as American companies need money more than Japan does.

30th Sep 2008, 22:00

I heartily agree with commenter 11:10. People who have never driven anything but imports refuse to acknowledge the high build quality, reliability and often superior handling of domestics.

I just read a review of a new Ford by a person who had never owned a domestic. He was raving about what an incredible car it is. I'm not at all surprised. The new Malibu, Fusion, Mustang, G8, Charger, Challenger, Camaro, CTS, Corvette, etc. are some of the finest cars on the planet.

As for trucks, Ford continues to hold the top spot with the best selling truck for 3 DECADES. GM and Dodge are also popular with businesses (including ours) that need reliable, heavy-duty trucks and vans. I doubt you'll see more than a handful of Tundras being used by businesses due to outrageous purchase prices and poor reliability.

1st Oct 2008, 10:18

Anyone that thinks that domestic cars and trucks are as good a quality as the products that Toyota or Honda makes needs to spend some time under the hoods of both. I have owned both domestic and Japanese brand vehicles. My Brother had a Ford Ranger. I have a Tacoma of the same vintage. Simply put, the overall fit, finish, machining, and construction of the Tacoma is superior in every way. Additionally, less care was made with the mechanical layout of the Ranger in regards to servicing it. For example, my Tacoma has a 2.4 liter, 4 cylinder 3rz-FE engine. His engine was a 2.3 liter OHC engine.

For starters, the engine in the Ranger was derived from an original ancient design dating back to 1974. It was used in the Pinto and over the years gradually updated. But besides the modern additions was an extremely old-fashioned and difficult to work on engine. Most of the bolts were painted black and over time corroded, making it impossible to disassemble. The wires, cables, and hoses were a mess. It made it impossible to get at components. It had 8 spark plugs located in odd places. One was in a recessed area that collected water, and subsequently froze the plug in the block. The engine used coolant and oil like mad. He had to fill up both around once a month. Lastly, the truck was SLOW, as in you would almost get clobbered in a freeway merge.

On the other hand, my Tacoma's engine was developed new for the Tacoma, and was far more modern. All bolts are aluminum, yellow anodized, or galvanized steel. None of them corrode, thus its easier to disassemble. The hoses, wiring, and cables are very neat, out of the way of the components, and lastly, there's less of them to deal with. The plugs are all on top, in a row, and easy to get to. If any parts are serviced, the casting and machining quality of the components are superior in every way over what my brother's truck was. The parts out of my Tacoma make the Ford's look crude. Lastly, this truck is FAST, peppy, and responsive. I've beat dudes in sports cars in this thing. It also gets amazing fuel economy.

The thing is that the engine was designed to be serviced very easily, with lots of consideration given to how easy things are to get at. I replaced the starter on mine 3 years ago. Took me 5 minutes and can be done standing up and reaching down through a space between the firewall and engine. Again - someone thought about how to make that procedure. The Ford's engine seemed to have been shoved in there without a thought in regards to service.

Working on my truck versus my Brother's is totally different. My Brother was a pain in the rear. Mine is almost a pleasure. What's more, I still have mine. His bit the dust years ago. Now I'm not one of those guys that claims that everything that Detroit makes is bad. But I have yet to see the level of care and quality manufacturing out of any of the big three yet. Until I do, I think I'd rather stick with what I know is a better crafted product.