2nd Oct 2008, 20:12
"Citing countless examples of high mileage Fords will prove nothing."
Nor will going on and on about a 17-year-old Tacoma when you haven't driven a domestic since 1992.
3rd Oct 2008, 06:52
21:48 and yet another "opinion" cover the badge and buy. I had both imports and domestics. I now drive new GM full sizes. What good is cars and small pickups comments on a full size review?
I did not like Tundra after driving one, and bought more capability, features, room, better ride, towing, load carrying... spend more for gas, it better have benefits.
3rd Oct 2008, 22:25
As both a car lover and avid reader, I pretty much stay up on what is going on in the auto industry.
Today USA Today carried a story headlined "Toyota resorts to 0% financing to draw in buyers". The story said Toyota's sales have plummeted 32.3% this year. That pretty much mirrors domestic sales losses.
In our area we just had both a large Chevy dealership and a large Toyota dealership go belly up. The current economy is to blame, and the sales declines have absolutely nothing to do with build quality or reliability. Domestic makers were caught by the $4 a gallon gasoline and simply didn't have enough fuel efficient cars to meet demand.
In our area the Tundra, Sequoia and Land Cruiser are just gathering dust on dealer's lots too, as are the gas hog domestics.
Although several of my car-savvy friend's have commented on Toyota's drop in build quality, I think all the current drops in car sales are purely economically driven.
3rd Oct 2008, 23:01
20:12 I drive domestics every day at work, but decided never to buy another one after my last Dodge, which I owned just into 2000. I drive them all the time, I just wised up enough to know never to buy another one.
Our Ford vans at work for example. Now, if I were a Ford owner, I'd no doubt be bragging about the 198,000 miles on the van. And then I'd fail to mention that this is the van's second engine and third transmission. That's the kind of stuff Ford and Chevy owners fail to mention because it's embarrassing.
Anyone I ever knew who kept a Toyota long enough before trading for a new one had that kind of mileage, plus another 100,000 or so on the original drivetrain. I don't lie about what I have and haven't repaired when it comes to vehicles. I've owned three Toyota's; total ownership of all three adds up to around 11 years, and I spent exactly $98 in repairs on all 3 combined. That's a starter in the last one at around 100,000 miles, the other two were perfect.
I've owned 4 domestics, for a combined timeframe of around 15 years. If I were to sit here all night, and list things that I had to repair, I probably still wouldn't remember all of it. Thousands of dollars.
Which is why I laugh when someone tries to tell me domestics are even close to comparable to Toyota's. Not even close.
4th Oct 2008, 15:12
I laugh reading about vans, small pickups like Tacomas on a full size truck review. What is hard to fathom is any relevance.
I disagree that Toyota has better full size pickups that even begin to have the capability, towing, load carrying that is why I am not driving the teeny trucks as they cannot handle most of the applications. Reminds me of trying to bring a knife to a gunfight... too small and underpowered.
Toyota may make a decent small truck as the other commenter claims... but I wholeheartedly disagree that they have anywhere near the breadth of line that domestics have. Take into account issues, less warranty and load, carrying capabilities the domestics are far superior. If it's not even available in a limited lineup, how anyone can state superiority is beyond the imagination.
I would suggest drive some new full sizes instead of lamenting over vehicles owned long ago. At least comment on late model full sizes with applicable comments.
4th Oct 2008, 17:05
I work in the home construction industry, as well as having family that owns two companies that use vans. The vans used are Ford, Dodge and GM (both Chevy and GMC) full size vans. There are also a fleet of Ford Ranger service trucks for the lighter hauling and transporting equipment. I don't know of ANY of these vehicles requiring a new motor or transmission in their normal period of use, which ranges up to 300,000 miles except for one Dodge that was accidentally rear ended by a semi while parked. The impact tore out the park gear and due to other damage it was written off as a business loss.
We would NEVER go to the expense of engine or transmission replacement on any service van or truck, nor would most businesses. It is cheaper just to write the vehicle off on taxes as a loss. I don't know of any companies that have ever replaced an engine or transmission in a service vehicle. It wouldn't make a great deal of sense. Buying a new vehicle allows the company to start depreciation deductions over again on the new vehicle.
We don't "fail to mention" engine or transmission replacements on our domestic service vehicles for the simple reason that there are none TO mention. Check out the Ford Ranger in the October '07 Consumer Reports. 488,000 miles with no engine or transmission problems. That is only about 200,000 miles more than what is typical of well cared for domestic vehicles.
5th Oct 2008, 07:35
17:05 Wow. ONE Ford Ranger in the world that got the kind of mileage that you can find in THOUSANDS of old Honda Civics and Toyota Corollas. Not impressed.
OK Ford and Chevy fans; read this:
J.D. Power's 2009 "Most Dependable Vehicles" study, based on number of problems per hundred vehicles experienced by original owners of 3 year old vehicles:
Opening line - "Can anyone dethrone Lexus?"... after Lexus (a Toyota of course) won for the 14th straight year.
And relevant to this thread: BEST LARGE PICKUP: TOYOTA TUNDRA. Obviously. Period.
There are 19 other categories of vehicles. Toyota won ELEVEN OF THEM. Honda won two. Hyundai won one. That makes 14. The 'Big 3' what a laugh... won only FIVE. Five versus 14. As an import owner, I'm happy with that. The Toyota Tundra is the best large pickup available. Period.
1st Oct 2008, 21:48
The back and forth will never end. Everybody has their preference.
Look, the fact is, Toyota and Honda build better vehicles than the big 3 do. That's all there is to it. They didn't gain the reputation for being top of the line by building disposable, cheaply made cars and trucks like Ford and GM always have. And those imports DO have the reputation for high quality, whether or not you Ford/GM people believe it. It's there for good reason
And people did not come up with jokes like F.O.R.D. (F.ound O. n R.oad D.ead) for no reason either. Citing countless examples of high mileage Fords will prove nothing.
Why do you guys think it is that every Ford and Chevy car commercial advertise their cars as a 'competitor to the Accord and Camry'? It's because they are in the top spot, due to being the best cars on the road, and therefore the top sellers. It's simply a case of people refusing to believe what is true. There is no Ford or Chevy vehicle that can compare to the kind of consistent reliability of an old Tercel, Civic, or Corolla for example. It just ain't true.
I'm sure this will be followed by some story about a Corolla blowing up at 30,000 miles and an Escort going for 300,000. No one cares. I don't at least, and neither do the majority of people who go out and buy cars, because they have made the Honda Accord and the Toyota Camry the best selling cars in the U.S. for over a decade.