10th Oct 2008, 10:19

Full size trucks are dinosaurs anyway. As I write this, both Ford and GM are bleeding money. There is even talk of possible bankruptcy or takeovers. This is largely to do with the insurmountable problems on Wall Street. But GM, Ford, and Chrysler were in trouble well before that. They focused too heavily on trucks and SUVS while ignoring their small cars and trucks. Let's face it. Cars from the 90's and early 2000's like the Cavalier, Corsica, Ranger, and S-10 were jokes. The big three commonly referred to these as "bottom feeders" because they made a tiny profit per unit. As a result, they were given the least development, the least amount of care in regards to quality, and changed them very little over the years.

Lately they've come out with some decent products. But the damage was already done. Honda and Toyota had an entire portfolio of high quality cars and trucks ranging from their smallest to largest vehicles. That GM and Ford were asleep at the wheel for too long is what has gotten them in such grave trouble, which is why they're slapping together Mazda/Fusions in Mexico, importing Astras from Germany, and slapping Chevy badges on Daewoos from Korea.

Who cares about full size trucks anymore. They're toast and so are the big three that make them.

10th Oct 2008, 11:36

The automotive press has NEVER really been objective. For that reason, you can know beyond a shadow of a doubt that when a domestic gets praise it is DEFINITELY due to genuine higher quality vehicles. When the Cadillac CTS gets awarded "Car of the Year" honors, you can be assured it is LEAGUES ahead of the competition. When the Corvette is favorably compared to the much less reliable Ferrari, you can be assured that it is MUCH better. And finally, when a Ford Fusion is the HIGHEST RATED car Consumer Reports has ever tested, you can know beyond any doubt that it is truly phenomenal (even Honda Accord owners are praising the Fusion).

ALL car makers are in big trouble now. Toyota sales are down 32%. Sales of domestics are much better in other areas of the world than they are in the U.S. (although the entire world auto market will most likely drop off more in the near future). There is absolutely NO valid evidence to support the myth that imports are better. It is a purely SUBJECTIVE opinion based on personal preference.

11th Oct 2008, 07:16

11:36 They reviewed 3 year old cars of all makes, one owner, and looked at the repair records of these cars, and how often they were in the garage in those 3 years. The FACT is that the Toyota's, Honda's, and Hyundai's were in the garage less, which obviously means they have less problems. What YOU state is opinion. These are facts.

11th Oct 2008, 22:45

18:43 Well, your opinion is in the extreme minority, because most experts rate the imports as being much higher quality. It's been that way for a long time, and still is today. Read JD Power's latest study.

And by the way, just because some starry-eyed Ford owner types here that his Ford has 300,000 miles doesn't make it true. It MIGHT be a fact; if we were talking about a Honda or a Toyota, it's much more likely to be true than if it were a Ford. In FACT, I just read a study, I honestly can't remember who did it, big it was a major name in the automotive industry, and they rated Honda first and Toyota second in a category that roughly said "cars most likely to get 250,000 miles or more".

My experience, and those of EVERY single other Toyota owner I have EVER known, is that switching from domestics to imports (Toy's specifically) was the best move we ever made when it comes to automobiles. They simply are put together better, with better materials, more care for quality control, and they run smoother, longer, and more efficiently with far less breakdowns than domestics.

12th Oct 2008, 06:50

For over 20 years the best selling vehicle in America has been a domestic full size truck. I am using mine a lot more since gas prices have come down.

As far as being dinosaurs, I have found that mine pays for itself with its usefulness... I remodeled my own homes, tow my boat vs. pay to have it in a slip or high and dry, moving, and hitting the antique auctions bringing furniture home. I cannot see not having such a useful vehicle and find it very practical to own.

I am not seeing the tremendous reliability on late model import cars; if anything average or less.

I suspect the stock market and other economic influences will be a factor in vehicle purchases. However I see the lowering of gas pricing, and those with 2 or more children to transport missing the room, comfort and space of SUV's and not be crammed into little sedans.

Gas is under $3 a gallon here, and my family likes to make trips together and get out. If you are 1 or 2 people or a solo long distance commuter, maybe small crammed imports are for you.

The same is for a full size truck. Once you have left small trucks you are sorely disappointed going downwards. I get in my truck without hesitation and it owes me nothing. What I do not like is spending $3-4K on low mileage repairs as I have with late model Japanese imports. You have a pretty strong opinion when you have first hand major mechanical issues, especially when you spent over 30 grand.

12th Oct 2008, 13:01

18:43 wasn't an OPINION. It was clearly stated facts. Then along comes 22:45 with clearly stated (and UNDOCUMENTED) OPINIONS. He "can't remember" who did a study he cites. He has also never met the challenge put forth earlier to DOCUMENT ONE SINGLE 500,000 mile Toyota or Honda still running with the original engine and transmission (and NOT rebuilt at that, and NOT a diesel truck).

This has been a familiar pattern with import fans. Offer tons of (unfounded) criticism of domestics, but offer no documented evidence to support their (unfounded) claims that imports are "better".

In a debate opinion NEVER matters. Facts DO. I'd love to see some FACTS (provided the commenter can remember AND CITE where he read them).

13th Oct 2008, 09:24

"Who cares about full size trucks anymore."

How about people who make a living with them for starters? Similarly, how about everyday people who save money working on their own homes/properties and tow heavy loads? How many 4x8 sheets of plywood or drywall can you bring home in a Tacoma?

Do you suppose farmers who need a vehicle to deliver their crop might be interested in full size trucks? How about boat owners?

Do you think a Tacoma is going to move my 28 foot cabin cruiser? For that matter, do you think a Tundra could do it (without twisting itself out of shape and and having the engine warp in the middle of the trip that is)?

If one only needs their vehicle for moving five or six bags of mulch a year or driving to male manicures, yes, I agree a Tacoma would do just fine. But, if one has serious work to do, they need a serious truck, meaning a full sized domestic, the heavier duty the better.