13th Nov 2008, 09:39

"If the commenter would take the time to drive a NEW domestic, (ANY new domestic),"

Ahh yes... the much touted theory that even though old domestic car were unreliable, that magically, the newer ones are 'much better'. We've been hearing this for years now.

I do a lot of traveling for my company. Most of the cars I rent on these trips are GM and Ford products. Of all of them, the majority were hardly acceptable. I had a brand-new 2007 Malibu that had the parking brake cable come loose. The materials inside and out were shoddy and cheap. This goes for the others I rented.

I rented a 2008 Cobalt with less than 10,000 miles on it. The "chrome" plating on the door handles was already peeling off. The plastic pieces on the door and the dash had lots of scratches where the silver paint was coming off, exposing the black plastic underneath. The seats were already showing excessive wear, and the engine made an awful squealing sound when started.

So if you're trying to convince me that the "New" domestic cars are better... Good luck. I've already seen them for myself. I am not at all convinced.

13th Nov 2008, 10:21

Cheering on a major economic crisis is strange. If Ford, and especially GM, fail, the economic consequences are too dire to imagine. GM is not JUST a car maker. They have HUGE investments in finance, insurance and many sectors of the economy. When the statement "What's good for GM is good for the country" was made, it was (and still is) totally true. If the U.S. allows GM to go under it will affect every citizen of the country (yes, even import owners). It will affect the cost of your health insurance, your food, your ability to purchase many things, and your taxes.

13th Nov 2008, 15:39

I typically trade up every 2-3 years at 80,000 miles plus without any replacement GM transmissions, unlike my wifes Honda that had 3. I would think you could make it on one transmission on a $34,000 import. Plus I tow a large boat in intense heat, often in bumper to bumper beach traffic, on our way to our summer home nearly every weekend. I am mentioning vehicles made in this decade, meaning late model vehicles. No warranty is no warranty... I have not had the misfortune to be stranded along the road in my GM. In fact it was my GM going to pickup my wife again and again with blown transmissions. I guess that's acceptable, after all it has an import nameplate. All maintenance 100% performed at dealerships, so the neglect aspect does not pertain.

14th Nov 2008, 10:33

No, GM has definitely NOT built "crap". Having cars that have been chosen Car of the Year, American Car of the Year, Best large sedan, Truck of the Year, biggest sales increase in international markets in a 3-year period, and 1st and 2nd place in owner satisfaction in a 3-year period hardly indicates "crap".

The only problem GM has had is a public that wants to own huge, gas guzzling vehicles to impress their neighbors. As long as people were clamoring to purchase these glorified pickup trucks with roofs welded over the bed and the price doubled, GM wisely continued to supply the demand. When gas hit $4 a gallon keeping up with the Joneses became less important than eating and paying the mortgage, so people stopped buying them. Toyota isn't selling their 15mpg monsters either.

14th Nov 2008, 21:45

I'm not especially worried about being "stuck" with a GM or Ford vehicle if GM and Ford go under. My dad bought a Pontiac in 1956. It was driven by him until he went into a nursing home in 1989. It has been driven by my nephew ever since.

I bought a new Ford last year, and at my current age it will easily outlast me, just as the Pontiac outlasted my father (who died at 101 in 2004).

I like a new car occasionally just for change, but no one in my family has ever had a car that didn't run great until they finally got tired of it and just decided they wanted something new.

If all I have to choose from are boring and unreliable Japanese cars, I'll just drive my Ford until I die and pass it on to someone in the family.

15th Nov 2008, 04:18

21:51 I did deal with it. I did not buy Toyota based on less features, benefits, capability, warranty, room, handling, ride quality, warranty. I am also leery of mechanical issue as well as comments on consumeraffairs.com as far as mechanical concerns on newer models.

I did drive the Tundra, and it is nowhere near as nice as my new GM. When you buy a full size truck, I suspect you expect to throw away function and better capability offered by domestic trucks. I have had less issues with new domestics than I have had with new imports. Owning a 1996 truck does not make one an expert on 2008 newer full size trucks.

If you take away the utility aspect of load carrying and tow capability (riding empty commuting interstates), maybe a small light bed truck may have merit. It seems full size truck benefits and actual ownership and why people buy these trucks gets lost or distorted on here.

I agree a million mile warranty is extreme. A standard 100,000 mile warranty on all new vehicles across the board is the way to be fair. Having legal recourse with an actual warranty in place is better than no warranty without a leg to stand on. I have been in this situation. No warranty equals no warranty. Lack of dealer service prompted my full change to domestics. It really does not matter in the end. Each person is ultimately making their own personal decision what to buy. I know I have spent a lot of money on new imports; over a dozen. I am not buying them now any more.

15th Nov 2008, 12:22

Toyota made big strides with the Tundra when it copied some of the top-selling Ford F-150's structural design features and made it slightly larger. It's frame no longer flexes wildly on bumps and most of the body parts actually remain in place over rough terrain. Yes, that IS an improvement over the super-flimsy and very poorly designed predecessor. However, to compare it to a domestic truck is sort of like comparing a Buick Lucerne to a Toyota Corolla. It is still a poor imitation of a REAL truck. It lacks the comfort, plush interior, silky smooth transmission and interior quality level of the Chevy Silverado or GMC Sierra, and lacks the long-term reliability of Dodge Ram or the F-150 or 250. Sorry, we'll stick with GM, and if they go under, we'll buy used ones.

16th Nov 2008, 01:45

Toyota makes better vehicles than anyone else other than Honda. Fact. A bunch of comments by Ford and Chevy owners doesn't change a thing. If you like Fords and Chevy's, buy them and keep badmouthing Toyota. That also changes nothing. You might like your Ford or Chevy better, but the fact remains that it isn't even close to being comparable in quality to a Toyota.

The Ford Fusion's ratings mean nothing either. Finally, a piece of junk Ford got lucky enough to be rated high. Not impressed. Toyota's ratings are historically MUCH higher and much more consistent overall; in the past and today. Nothing you guys say can change that. If you're not driving a Toyota (or possibly a Honda), then you're driving something inferior.