16th Nov 2008, 09:53

"13th Nov 2008, 09:39.

Ahh yes... the much touted theory that even though old domestic car were unreliable, that magically, the newer ones are 'much better'. We've been hearing this for years now.

I do a lot of traveling for my company. Most of the cars I rent on these trips are GM and Ford products. Of all of them, the majority were hardly acceptable."

I certainly disagree with both of these statements. My family has always been a used car family, so we get cars 4-11 years old. All of our American made cars built in the 1970's, 1980's, and 1990's all proved to be reliable. So I don't believe American cars ever have been unreliable. I'm still driving a 1973 Dodge and 1971 Plymouth. Our other late '70s era Dodge and Plymouth cars all passed 200,000 miles, which seemed exceptional at the time. However, our 1983 Cavalier, 1984 Reliant, 1985 Dodge, 1989 Pontiac, 1989 Chevy, and 1993 Seville all went past 200,000 miles with minimal repairs. Our 1997 Sable is a young one, with only 180,000 miles, and my '02 Ford with 100,000 miles is still like new. So, you would have to convince me that American cars have EVER BEEN unreliable. American cars always were reliable, and still are, as far as my own experience has shown.

I also do a lot of traveling for my company, and rent a lot of vehicles. Funny how my experience has been the exact opposite of yours. The Chevy Impalas and Malibus, and the Ford Fusions and Tauruses that I've rented have been smooth, gotten good mileage, are well built, and have good power. I don't know what there is to complain about. I was also impressed by the Dodge Caliber R/T that I recently rented. I guess some people are determined to find something to complain about when their mind is made up already.

16th Nov 2008, 10:10

It's is not bad mouthing when you present facts, test driving first hand new full size domestic trucks and the Tundra.

How this pertains to Prius, Fusions etc or cars perplexes me. When you buy a full size truck, unless I am not speaking for myself, I examine the following: load carrying in the bed, towing and handling characteristics, interior room, handling, comfort, warranty. I do not know if anyone else that has test driven many models frequently ever few years, but our household does. And then we buy.

If you are shopping for a new full size truck, does anyone else look at the utility aspect besides myself? I wonder how many have test driven new full size import trucks, if you can call them that, and new full size trucks before they bought yet another one recently. It seems to drift off to car comparisons and/or small trucks. It would seem better to focus on all large truck comparisons, any late model test drives, and maybe compare Prius with small cars.

I'd love to fill up a new small compact car 1/2-3/4 ton and then tow with a hitch on the back and then compare to a new full size truck on here.

Better capability, ride, better handling and better warranty is why I did not buy the Tundra. The Tundra is a bit quicker light to light, but that was not my primary incentive buying a full size truck. I looked at practically and utility first, otherwise I could be cruising about in a small car with a hatchback.

16th Nov 2008, 10:42

"Toyota's ratings are historically MUCH higher and much more consistent overall".

The Fusion has the highest rating ever given to a vehicle. No manufacturer has EVER scored that high.

17th Nov 2008, 10:00

"I also do a lot of traveling for my company, and rent a lot of vehicles. Funny how my experience has been the exact opposite of yours."

Let me rephrase it for you then. All of the Domestic branded vehicles I rented were absolutely sub-par compared to the Hondas and Toyotas we have in our family. The fit and finish, comfort level, and overall quality was not up to the same level. If you've only ever driven the same domestic brands, then you wouldn't know the difference, which I suspect is the case with the vast majority of the folks on this thread, who for some reason insist on bashing every single import brand thread on the site. I'm not sure what that motivation is, but you hardly see any of we Toyota owners making comments on the countless Domestic car threads, which are overwhelmingly filled with people that have had tons of problems with them.

And again - The Fusion is a Mazda platform using a Mazda engine with a Indian crank, and it is made in Mexico. So if you want to call it a "domestic" car... go for it. But that car is ironically more foreign than my Toyota, with its 65% US sourced parts and US assembled. Go figure that the one car that keeps on getting praised by you "Go USA!" folks is completely non-USA produced.

17th Nov 2008, 15:12

I have an excellent suggestion since you rent new vehicles. How about renting a new full size Ford V8 Pickup; the new ones are getting better MPG, a Silverado, a Ram and a Tundra and take some long trips. It might benefit everyone on here vs. talk about import cars, Cobalts etc.

This is a full size truck review. Rent a few new full sizes and take notes on features, ride, handling, loads, towing if you can. Since you are very interested in these models and may buy one someday... why not rent one?

I am a firm believer in test drives and I buy. If this is just a hypothetical opinion it may be best to address it as such. If you rent a full size new truck it may benefit everyone comparing them and those that buy them as well.

I have zero interest in small cars/trucks and am never buying one on a full size truck review. Keep in mind why people buy larger new trucks. Your late model current tests after renting on a long trip will have benefit for all on a full size truck review. I would appreciate it on my next new full size truck purchase upcoming.

17th Nov 2008, 15:32

"17th Nov 2008, 10:00.

"All of the Domestic branded vehicles I rented were absolutely sub-par compared to the Hondas and Toyotas we have in our family. "

Well, that's your opinion and you're welcome to it. Because of its subjectivity, your "argument" doesn't sway me, and won't prevent me from buying a Dodge or Ford when the time comes. I see no reason to consider Honda or Toyota based on your 'feeling' of a few rentals.

17th Nov 2008, 15:50

I do not think anybody here bashes Toyota's just because they are Toyota's. Rather, I think some people (myself included) take issue with Toyota reviewers who using the Toyota review section to make claims of Toyota's being infallible, while excoriating domestics that many of us (who have been burned by Toyota's) know based on experience are much more reliable than Toyota's.

The rose colored Toyota glasses tend to come off after experiencing disasters like these:

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/toyota_engine.html

None of my domestics have ever had these types of problems.