29th May 2008, 15:25
17:13 How about discussing recent 2008 Toyota quality?... recent new owners having owned a vehicle for a minimum 2-3 months. Out of 1000 points Toyota finished 5th on surveys on reliability and quality. Volkswagen AG with includes Audi finished 1st at 892 points, General Motors finished 2nd at 867,followed by Ford and Honda tied for 3rd at 862. Toyota finished 5th at 860 points. This is current not the 3 older Toyotas you had or have. You can ignore one time buyouts and declare it's about quality rather than factual information. VW, GM and Ford were the only corporations which have shown improvements on the current surveys.
Gasoline pricing is a factor on current sales numbers. Eventually the mechanical issues and how they are handled are reflected which they have been. How would you like a $2000 repair bill on your Prius just beyond the lousy 36,000 mile warranty for a failure on the electric steering system designed to save fuel and beyond the recall date, or a $4000 plus trans or Engine repair on a Honda, Toyota? If any of this happens to you at some later date when you buy newer imports, as many are reflecting these issues, you may not accept it any longer. Again it's 2008, not the same older imports of which you have owned 3? How about us that have had 12 or more, all bought new?
I like looking at a collective current opinion before I spend, and I am seeing it's false economy rushing out to buy the cheapest chasing MPG, without analyzing true costs to own and mechanical issues attended to. Face it, 36,000 miles is a lousy warranty... no warranty at 37000 miles is no warranty. The actual owner surveys are indicating the quality issues, not the marathon owner with 1 vehicle that they have 200,000 miles with no intention of being in the mainstream with late model comparisons.
30th May 2008, 23:20
15:25 I'm happy to discuss Toyota quality in 2008: it's still the best, rivaled only by Honda. That sums it up.
I have no idea which poll you're talking about, because you don't say, or what relevance you think some obscure point system has, but I don't worry about any of that nonsense. What I do know is that Toyota and Honda still make the most reliable, long lasting engines and drivetrains money can buy, and that's a fact.
I'm not trying to convince you, or anyone else of that. I don't care who knows it and who doesn't. I know that, and most educated car buyers know it too. Those of you who don't, well, that's your problem, not mine.
31st May 2008, 11:09
23:20 for an older vehicle owner that hardly ever buys new vehicles, it's not surprising. Strategic Visions Total Quality Index is comprised of complete ownership experiences after 90 days of new ownership. It comprises ownership of every vehicle sold in America. 1000 points is perfect, of which Toyota owners rank its quality in 5TH place.
It's wonderful that you love your vehicle. Anyone owning a late model, literally thousands with first hand ownership in 2008, indicate otherwise. VW including Audi (and I have have a friend with a new one that loves it) is number 1. 2008 GM owners in second place. Since it is 2008 and I own 2008 vehicles, I prefer thousands of collective experiences vs. a lone dissenter knocking vehicles they had 10 plus years ago.
My next new vehicle will likely be 2010; again, not 1999 or older. I have a lot more faith in many thousands commenting as well. I like evaluating my overall ownership experiences not just on fuel costs, economy only or limited application vehicles designed for mostly solo ownership. I buy after examining every aspect... not seeing the outstanding quality as VW and GM owners have in 2008.
Honda at least was tied with Ford in the number 3 spot. I guess you do not care what thousands of 2008 owners think overall... I respect it however more so that a solo commenter.
Taking out fuel economy and even price of the vehicle to a point, I buy the best there is. Function is again dismissed; why buy a minimum type vehicle to beat around in. I paid 4.28 a gallon today for premium fuel in my one new GM, but the overall quality, ride, room, warranty is worth every penny. My scoring would be excellent on my 2....and I will buy more. Apparently thousands of others agree with me on total quality and level of ownership as well in 2008.
31st May 2008, 12:36
Yes, I suppose that's why Consumer Reports (one of those "obscure" systems, which uses such silliness as allowing actual vehicle OWNERS to inform them of the satisfaction of their vehicles) no longer recommends Tundra, Camry or Yaris.
1st Jun 2008, 07:49
12:36 You know, you domestic owners are funny. I've argued on here with dozens of you guys anytime Consumer Reports gave an import a good rating, and I was told that it was because Toyota pays them a lot of ad. money, or that they were biased toward imports for some unknown reason. I guess it was because they called domestic automobiles what most of us know that they are; junk. Substandard to the imports. Now that a couple domestics get a decent rating, Consumer Reports is right on the money and the end all-be all of publications. You can't have it both ways. Make up your mind.
I don't believe everything I read. The proof is in the ownership, and I've owned domestics and imports. The imports win every possible category when comparing the two in my book, new or old.
I just bought a Hyundai Accent. I looked at every compact on the market; the Aveo and the Focus. I don't bother with Dodge, because they're the complete bottom of the barrel, didn't even waste my time there.
I wanted the Fit above all, the Yaris was my second choice, and I settled on the Hyundai because it was a few thousand cheaper than those two and had a much longer warranty.
The Aveo is junk, and Ford's history of problematic cars kept me away from the Focus.
29th May 2008, 11:43
I don't normally defend the Tacoma guy because he isn't discussing modern, large trucks, but I do have to say that the gas price argument is valid, even where large trucks are concerned. I can't accept for a second the argument that "a person who buys a full size truck needs one, otherwise they'd buy a small truck." NO ONE I know (except construction companies) that owns a large truck or SUV EVER uses it for anything except taking the kids to soccer games or grocery shopping. You could do that in a golf cart. AGAINST my wishes, my wife chooses to drive a large SUV because she is afraid to drive a small vehicle as long as our roads are clogged with 3-ton Corolla/Civic Squishers. All of our neighbors, relatives and friends buy their children SUV's or large trucks for the same reason: SAFETY. NO ONE hauls ANYTHING in them or tows anything. My wife seldom even has a passenger with her.
The driving force behind recent small car sales (Ford has increased production of the 35mpg Focus by 30% to cover increased demand) is HIGH GAS PRICES, not any perceived difference in quality. Most car buyers don't even know the difference between a crankshaft and a water pump, but they DO know gas costs a LOT. I sincerely hope that our government will finally get the backbone to outlaw monster SUV's and trucks for anyone other than large construction companies.
We are destroying our planet and our economy by driving 8 mile per gallon monsters like the Ford Excursion, Hummer, Toyota Land Cruiser and Nissan Armada, as well as the humongous 4-door full size trucks that take up two parking spaces and cost $100 to fill up.
As for the new large hybrids, the Tacoma guy has that right too. Their gas mileage is still laughably low. 21 miles per gallon is 14-16 mpg less than a non-hybrid Corolla, Civic or Focus. Even though import quality is dropping like a rock, they still attract buyers because of gas prices, and the average buyer is not very well educated about vehicle quality and relies on ad hype to make most buying decisions. High fuel mileage makes for GREAT ad hype.