21st Nov 2008, 17:27
20:45 while you use the words automobiles freely, at what point are you going to begin to analyze full size trucks? I can read magazines as well, but then I take it on the road and test as many full size trucks as possible.
If you truly hate import full size truck's handling or room, comfort or handling, are you expected to forego that and buy anyway? If you have ever owned new full sizes do you compare utility or compare it to a car?
I am sorry but I do not apply car analogies as it's the functionality that concerns me when one wants to go bigger and own new late model full size trucks.
I own different vehicles including a high top conversion van. When I bought the conversion van, I was not thinking a hybrid Prius to base upon my buying decision.
The fact is if you ever go beyond walking around full size trucks, looking at paint and finish and the amount of cupholders, it may at some point address best function and capability. There are far more full size truck offerings available as domestics, and import full size trucks are thin. I found out I like driving domestic full sizes most of all... far better comfort, I like the better handling and especially function. Again this is not a small car, small truck review and if anyone on here were commenting on the Tundra they owned I would be interested in reading. If you own a Tundra, Titan where are you? Beyond maybe 2 people, the rest are either small car, small truck or full size domestic truck owners on here.
21st Nov 2008, 20:37
"Or I can believe YOU and a bunch of anonymous people with absolutely no qualifications or facts."
Does anyone see the irony in this comment? I'll believe my experience with trouble-free American vehicles before I let this guy tell me tales of magical Japanese cars.
22nd Nov 2008, 05:42
How many people rent a Camry, review car reviews at the newstand and then buy a full size truck? I remember following Consumer Reports in the 70's and seeing the columns of darkened circles indicating import excellence. Then it slowly became satisfactory or worse than before if you are into the circle thing. With less and less dark circles. I learned to always test drive after making mistakes on my special ordered vehicles. You have to get out of the armchair and base decisions on what you like and actually need. On a full size truck review I tow a boat. I also have 4 occupants (family) that look at comfort, head, shoulder room.
My worse mistake was going off a review and special ordering a car with reduced headroom with the sunroof option. None of the cars we walked around had that option to even sit in. My head was right on the ceiling for 4 months and I sold it.
The same with full size trucks. If you are unhappy driving them it is not any value whatsoever. It is the worst feeling hating what you drive over cheapness. Being uncomfortable or lacking key elements you may personally need over resale or looking at panel gaps, cupholders is not how I buy. I want value in the product,outstanding service and warranty or I will not keep buying the same new vehicles again.
On full size trucks, I am asking questions on latest options, safety, cooling, tow packages, suspension, tires but then test the handling, leg, better shoulder room and overall room, even heavily involving my children as they spend a lot of time in my full size truck as well.
Unless you buy a full size truck to solo commute or not need any utility of one. I would probably buy a small truck if I did not have applications for a full size. I would suspect people on here are contemplating the purchase of a new full size or they would not be on here. Anyway we chose another new Silverado. My wife is 100% off new import sedans; had been buying new ones every 2-3 years since the 70's. She's very pleased with her newest GM SUV.
22nd Nov 2008, 23:13
20:37 As expected, you miss the point again. I'm not expecting you to believe me. My argument isn't built on MY opinions, it's built on the opinions of automotive experts working for every major auto magazine on the newstand that ALL rate Japanese cars and trucks the HIGHEST in quality and reliability - because they ARE.
Your argument doesn't work at all, and it's factually void. AGAIN -- are you really expecting people to believe YOUR unfounded opinions, or the millions of people who've made Japanese cars the best selling in the country BECAUSE they're the best, AND are clearly rated as such??
22nd Nov 2008, 23:25
12:52 Your college degree does not guarantee your intelligence or anyone else's. I'm very close to a post grad degree also... who cares.
To answer your question (of sorts)...NO, I do not think that ALL people who make negative comments about Toyota's are lying. They are machines, they break down. HOWEVER.. they ARE (in fact), much BETTER machines/automobiles than Chevy, Ford, Dodge, or anyone else makes. With the possible exception of Honda, their only real competitor regarding quality.
It is much easier to believe claims of high mileage Toyota's and Honda's because IT'S THE TRUTH, due to their better build quality and engine design. Any mechanical engineer worth a nickel would be able to explain how a Honda or Toyota engine is superior in design to a GM engine.
23rd Nov 2008, 06:49
With the economy the way it is, with less and less people in existing companies, the last thing I want to do is to miss work with very high mileage cars or trucks.
I use to buy some bargains, thinking no car payment, and take a chance with imports. But import repairs are very expensive, and some of the following such as modules, timing belts, water pumps, head gaskets, heater cores can go at any minute. Even thinking you replace everything in time does not always work. I have seen 2 coworkers late with an older Camry and an old mini Toyota pickup, that were late more than a few times and written up.
The logic of having 2 heaps in the driveway and hope one starts in the morning is not for me. Another co-worker wasted his money on a Civic adding shaved keyless door handles, a supercharger, and costly rims instead of owning a new reliable vehicle, and got written up as well over unreliable transportation.
I suspect most on here do not chance that unless they are retired and have all day to sit in the shop and miss work. I have used a free loaner car with basic service schedule; no real issue with my new domestic and the free shuttle to and from work.
Employers notice who's working the moment they come in. It's hard to also catch a bus when your car is sitting on the shoulder of the interstate. Look at consumeraffairs.com to get an idea.
21st Nov 2008, 17:16
I agree that test drives should be very strenuous and push the vehicle to its limits. Otherwise, you have no idea what its capabilities and limitations are. I ALWAYS buy the car I test drove (instead of choosing an identical one off the lot) in spite of having wrung the guts out of it.
As a former car salesman, I can assure you that the salesmen put their demonstrators through ever conceivable form of abuse. Domestic vehicles are built like tanks, and red-lining the engines, slamming on the brakes at speed and wild cornering are not going to do them the slightest bit of harm. Ironically, the ONLY vehicle I ever saw blow up during a test drive was (of all things) a Rolls Royce!!
The scariest test drive I ever had was in a Toyota Highlander. It DID make it back to the dealer's lot, but applying the brakes caused it to lurch wildly to the left, the V-6 was so puny we couldn't merge into traffic without nearly being run over, and pieces of trim were literally falling off the interior. It goes without saying we did NOT buy the Toyota!!