3rd Dec 2008, 13:15

I'll respond to 11:08's post. First of all, you mentioned that:

"The plants in the states you mentioned may provide benefits in the short term, but US industry going out of business and the Japanese (or anyone else) controlling all industry is not good in the long run."

The first Japanese car plants setup shop in TN and OH in the early 80's, almost 30 years ago. So much for their presence being a "short term" benefit. The response that they will take captive the US worker and pay them as little as possible is also bogus. Ford and GM have had a presence in the UK and Europe for almost as long as they've existed in the US. Despite the UK having lost all of its brands to foreign car makers, Fords are still made in the UK with the same comparable wages. Hence the argument falls flat. Besides- Companies like Toyota have incentives to pay their employees decent wages: They can then afford to buy their cars plus they stay on the job longer.

Next you mention:

"I disagree about the quality and fit and finish assertion for reasons several people including myself have mentioned on previous comments, which I do not feel like rewriting and I doubt anybody feels like rereading. But, they are there for anybody who wants to see them."

I've rented numerous brand-new GM and Ford brand vehicles on trips. Indeed the fit and finish is better than it was in the past, but it's still not anywhere close to the newer Japanese or European equivalents. I also went to a international car show a few weeks ago. Again, the fit and finish are not what I would call... bad. But it isn't great either.

In regards to your comment about GM and Ford giving the public what they wanted - large SUVs, sure. I agree that they would be foolish not to provide this need. But they also completely ignored their small and mid sized car offerings. Cars from GM and Ford in the 90's and early 2000's were dinosaurs. Buick, Cadillac, and Oldsmobile were hopelessly outdated cars that appealed mainly to older buyers. The interiors and materials used in them were cheap and lacked imagination. Ignoring these cars while Toyota and Honda continually improved theirs was a huge mistake that they are still paying for. Nobody my age (30) even considers most of the cars GM and Ford makes, mainly because the cars they made that we grew up seeing were totally uninteresting. Hence why should we care now?

Now for your last comments regarding GM's Hybrid, fuel cell, and electric car programs, I've been paying close attention to these development for years. I applaud them for their efforts. They have the most advanced fuel cell cars and trucks in existence. The Volt is truly revolutionary as was the EV-1. Technically, they succeed. In making them practical for average consumer consumption they fail miserably. Why? Well for one, hydrogen takes TWICE as much energy to produce and requires a massive change in infrastructure to implement. Thus it's a tremendous waste, not to mention the cars right now cost almost a million dollars each. The inefficiency of hydrogen production alone is enough to make me think that they should scrap this plan completely.

Their latest attempt is the Volt, available in 2010. Again - promising car with lots of potential. The problem is that GM has put its latest cost estimate for this car at slightly over $40,000. At that price, they are still losing money on it. $40,000 is in the semi-luxury threshold. The Volt is a four door family sedan. On top of that, we're in a recession. They might as well ask $100,000 for it because nobody is going to pay that kind of money for a family car. Yet Toyota has an upgraded version of the Prius coming out in 2010 that will cost the same as the current one: $20,000, plus it'll get 75MPG. It's more conventional in terms of hybrid technology, but just like what Toyota has always done, they choose a path that yields a good, practical product at a reasonable cost. In other words, they get what consumers need and are willing to pay. The Volt is a better design. But if they can't sell it, then they fail. Their business model for the Volt is a glaring mistake.

GM's timing on all of their breakthrough projects is way off. That, or they fail to consider the marketing problems these products will hit. This pretty much sums up GM: A dinosaur with poor direction and poor management.

4th Dec 2008, 12:07

Here's the deal: GM, Ford, and Chrysler make junk and they KNOW IT. In fact, RIGHT NOW I am watching all 3 of these people beg for money in front of a senate committee, and ALL 3 ADMITTED to being behind in technology, making poor vehicles and needing, I quote "a product renaissance".

So, for you people out there attacking Toyota, give it up. You don't have a leg to stand on. The point of this review, the Tundra, is a better truck than anything the Big 3 have ever made and likely will ever make.

Turn on CNN, listen to the very LEADERS of GM, Ford, and Chrysler prove me right. Remember..."a product renaissance". You don't hear Toyota or Honda talking about that. Because they don't need it. GM does. And Rick Wagoner just said it himself.

4th Dec 2008, 20:33

But they also completely ignored their small and mid sized car offerings."

As usual, totally untrue. Chevrolet alone makes more 30+ mpg cars than Honda and Toyota COMBINED. The incorrect idea that the Big Three only make gas-guzzling SUV's is another of those urban myths that just won't die. All of the Big Three auto makers build vehicles rated higher than even the Honda Fit. GM builds 37mpg vehicles, as does Ford, and the Dodge Caliber with the small 4 and CVT is rated at 35mpg. In addition, all these cars cost several thousand dollars less than Japanese cars and offer far better warranties due to higher build quality.

"Nobody my age (30) even considers most of the cars GM and Ford makes mainly because the cars they made that we grew up seeing were totally uninteresting. Hence why should we care now?"

Oh yes, all those "boring" Mustang Bosses, Shelbys and Cobras, Camaro Z-28's, Corvettes, Dodge Hemis, Buick Grand Nationals, Firebird Trans Ams, and a host of other "boring" cars. Please tell us of ONE Japanese import that has NOT been totally boring.