26th Dec 2008, 10:35

20:35 makes an excellent point. You need to drive vehicles from different manufacturers and buy the one with the most obvious advantages, such as a decent warranty, good ride and handling and the ability to perform the tasks that you need them to perform. That's why our company fleets are all Ford, Chevy or Dodge. We have to have reliable vehicles that can do the job. You won't be seeing any Tundras with our company name on them any time soon.

26th Dec 2008, 21:22

"It remains to be seen how $5K to 9K for replacement batteries at some point in time may affect a cost conscious young family"

The batteries ARE very expensive, but I think it is more like $2000-$3000. However I have been told that some Toyota dealerships are charging $2000 labor to replace them, so your figures aren't too far off if you meant to include labor.

Prius sales have really tanked and have dropped 48% in the past couple of months. That's more than Ford and GM sales have dropped. Part of that may well be due to articles regarding the extremely high cost of maintenance on the Prius.

27th Dec 2008, 14:59

I am basing my battery comments on both the Prius and the Volt even. What happens when a young family gets hit with high replacement battery costs down the road? I think the verbage economy means more than buying the car and putting gas in. It's total cost of ownership.

I have absorbed high import repair bills to the point of bitterness... it's utterly ridiculous.

Here's another source of tracking repairs... go to a very high volume junkyard and ask what late model cars are worth repairing with durable bodies, frames and drivetrains. My friend rents a shop buys and sells late models, both former wrecks and unwanted cars, and it's a good way to see premature deaths of vehicles. I even ask at the places like Jiffy Lube what are the best engine life vehicles they see based on mileages etc.

Test drive, ask questions from numerous sources besides getting so wrapped up in politics is my opinion on the buying brand new late models. Find repair centers that work on many different new models, not just a specific dealer that either wants repairs or another new car replacement from you. I can go import or domestic and I buy. I do not keep vehicles and then act like I know what is the best current ones.... do extensive homework and test drive them all. If a car dealer buys a brand new car for me that's different, but it has not happened yet.

28th Dec 2008, 07:59

04:50 Well, what I do know is that whatever wages the people at Toyota are making, they're producing far, far better cars than the higher paid employees at GM or Ford. I know people (whole families in fact, fathers and sons) that work at GM, and if you heard half of what I've been told about the quality of their assembly, you'd never consider buying another one. Guess that's why they fall apart so quickly and Toyota's last for many years.

29th Dec 2008, 06:12

My 1969 Camaro SS has lasted many years. And others I still see from time to time in our small town. My cousin still drives his Challenger RT he received as a college graduation present in the mid seventies. I had Toyotas that rusted out.

My favorite Toyota was my 1977 Celica GT. I liked the Mustang styling. They were not cheap to buy... yet when is the last time anyone has seen one lately? I would be interested to know of anyone still driving their Toyotas from over 30 years ago. I also had the same rust issues in my Datsun 280ZX even more so.

29th Dec 2008, 11:12

"But the Prius 180,000 or so sold the past year has to be the ugliest vehicle I have seen. It remains to be seen how $5K to 9K for replacement batteries at some point in time may affect a cost conscious young family."

First of all, I know a TON of people who think F-150's and Silverados are pretty ugly looking, so your first comment is a mere opinion.

Your second comment is inaccurate. I keep hearing all these "what about Prius batteries" comments from people who don't own or know much about these cars. We own a 2002 Prius, meaning it's now on its 7th year of reliable performance. It's also the first generation of the US Prius. The Prius actually came out in 1997 in Japan. The first Japanese model did have some problems where the battery wore out after a few years. This was because the battery was completely charged and discharged over and over versus the next model where the battery is only charged 40-60% then discharged also to around 40-60%. In doing so, this cycling puts very little stress on the battery. Thus with ours, the battery is expected to last as long as the car does. In fact, there are fleets of the older Prius in NYC used as taxi cabs with well over 300,000 miles with their original batteries. The current Prius also has a 150,000 mile warranty on the battery. That and the current generation's battery is half the price of the old one. On top of that, Toyota pays you $600 for the old battery.

Even if you had to replace the main battery, which so far very few have, the cost of replacement depends on what you do. Used units can be bought for $500-$800. The battery is bolted under the rear seat and can be replaced fairly easily. A moderate weekend mechanic could do so himself.

Look at it this way. There have been far, far more Cadillac Northstar engines that have needed replacements than Prius batteries.

All I know is that we've had zero problems with ours. Several of our neighbors and my Aunt have them too. Again - no problems.