3rd Jan 2009, 00:21
I truly feel sorry for people who are conditioned to believe that Ford or GM makes a better truck than Toyota. You have my sympathies. Please, continue to buy Fords and Chevys. Even though they're inferior to any Toyota, somebody has to buy them to keep the economy in better shape. The rest of us can buy the better trucks and drive Tundra's and Tacoma's.
3rd Jan 2009, 08:08
I felt sorry that I continued to believe that imports would continue to produce high reliability as in the past (small-mid size sedans). But since this is a full size truck segment, the domestics are far superior and much more capable. If you have a small truck, mostly empty, and certainly can never tow as much as the full size trucks, what's the comparison?
As far as the Tundra, the sales figures are so small to even be significant. The full size truck segment are not just A to B drivers, and just throw them the keys. I did more homework and test driving than ever (much more than small cars) as I have a very expensive investment to tow every weekend. I also value my comments of my family and take them along.
If I were single and had hardly any applications, I doubt I would own a truck, any truck. However we love boating and the beach. I would simply have a nice SUV and carry light loads from home centers. I still have a hitch and could even have a small trailer. But people buy full size trucks most likely to perform and have needs for them. What applications can you see that a Tacoma can perform on this full size review? 90% of the time my truck carries a family and tows... should I sell and have a 10% truck and have someone else tow for me? Or maybe my family can follow me in a small truck and take 2 vehicles. Better than bickering in something that is not enjoyable to ride in.
I need to stay with function, utility, smoother ride, better handling, better cost to own and far better driving and better warranty. I love test driving the latest. I will compare Tundra again and not just take one opinion as usual... my family has valuable input on buying decisions. If I hate driving what I am in there's no way I will ever buy a vehicle that is not as smooth, comfortable and handles better... more fun to drive. And I have not had any mechanical issues.... my wife did and got sick of imports.
I feel sorry for those that have such closed minds they do not look at everything available domestic/imports in 2009.
5th Jan 2009, 13:08
I always want the most in reliability, safety and overall value in a vehicle, be it truck or car. That's why I bought my wife a Fusion this past weekend.
5th Jan 2009, 21:40
08:08 - I've looked at new domestics. Still junk. Period. Not even worth the test drive. They don't have a lower cost of ownership, because it is a fact that they break down more.
Plenty of proof out there to back me up on that; studies showing warranty trips back to the garage on single owner 3-year old imports and domestics. Domestics break down more. Fact.
Everyone knows that Toyota and Honda have made the most fuel efficient vehicles in the world for years. Also unarguable fact.
I feel sorry for domestic fans who enjoy claiming that Fords, GM's, and Dodges are built as well, or are as reliable as a Toyota or a Honda. Simply not true.
6th Jan 2009, 12:59
Anyone who won't sit in a new domestic has no factual basis whatsoever to condemn them. A close look at ANY domestic and ANY import (even German) from the outside won't show any appreciable differences. If you haven't even SAT in a domestic, refrain from passing meaningless judgments. Any time we buy a car we not only SIT IN, but actually DRIVE both domestics and imports. We base our judgments on verifiable FACTS and DRIVING EXPERIENCE, not bad experience with a 20-year-old domestic with 200,000 miles. We drive the cars, compare fit and finish, feel, interior layout and quality, price and length of warranty, then we choose. We always choose domestics because they win out in our experience over any import in most, if not all categories.
Domestics most definitely DO have a lower cost of ownership. Not only is that clearly shown in many comparisons, but in real-world experience. The repair costs of 7 of our domestics are as follows:
1) 1990 Dodge (241,000 miles) $ 550.00
2) 1993 Ford Ranger $.00
3) 1996 Ford Mustang: $.00
4) 1998 Ford Explorer: $.00
5) 2001 Dodge Dakota: $.00
6) 2001 Pontiac (still owned, 72,000 miles) : $27.00
7) 2003 GMC (still owned, 65,000 miles) : $.00.
That TOTALS $ 577.00 for SEVEN VEHICLES over a span of 18 YEARS, one of which had over 240,000 miles on it.
In the decade prior to that, we spent more on EACH of our three imports than that in far less than 100,000 miles. That, too me, made a good case for driving domestics.
And as for as resale value, the much higher purchase price of an import virtually ALWAYS offsets the resale value. Run a comparison on an identically equipped Honda Civic and Ford Focus at three years of age and you'll find that, taking into account the initial purchase price, you are still TWO GRAND AHEAD with the Ford Focus. I know because I recently ran the figures for a friend of mine. He bought the Focus.
6th Jan 2009, 16:23
Well, the 2008 sales figures are in. GM sales dropped 31.2%. Ford sales dropped 32.3%. Honda sales dropped 34.7% and Toyota sales dropped 36.7%
Since the import boosters have constantly ranted that INCREASED sales by Toyota and Honda meant that domestics were "crap", we might now put the shoe on the other foot and ask "Since GM and Ford sales have held up BETTER than Toyota and Honda during this recession, does that not indicate that Toyota and Honda now build crap?" If NOT, why NOT, according to import fan reasoning?
I'd love to hear them (RATIONALLY) talk their way out of that dilemma, especially since sales of the awesome new Chevy Malibu (a direct competitor to Camry and Accord) went UP by a whopping 51.5% in 2008.
7th Jan 2009, 09:10
I owned a 2000 Tundra SR5 extended cab 4x4TRD 4.7L (same model as the 2002). I owned it from 35,000 to 108,000 on the odo.
The good things:
Very reliable, the only thing that ever required fixing was a water pump that got replaced at the 90,000 mile "super service".
Very smooth and refined power-train. Able to tow my 31' Airstream with plenty of power and torque.
Good looking in black IMO. No rust problem.
Very good off-road.
The bad things:
Weak door detents (they would swing back with almost no slope or wind).
Stock suspension is too squishy and caused wander while trailering. It also allowed too much axle hop if it started to spin in snow or mud. I had the alignment done but it would still wear tires crooked for some reason.
Had weak seat-belt return springs.
Paint chipped easily.
Mileage was similar to larger trucks of the time, averaging 15-17 mpg, depending on speed and temperature (but this truck isn't as big and heavy -- so not too good).
To sum up, I would say that if you need a tough work truck for heavy hauling or towing, get something else. But if you need a reliable truck for lighter duty work or off-roading, this is a good choice (if my experience was representative).
So if you are looking to buy one, watch the tires and look for any sign of water leaks or water pump failure -- my understanding is that the coolant just eats 'em up after a while, so it could be that they all fail somewhere around 100,000 miles. Or check if the pump has already been replaced.
Lastly the import vs. domestic argument is pointless. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and should buy according to their needs. The problem seems to be that guys on this forum had some bad experiences with a brand or type of vehicle. Instead of admitting that their experiences weren't broad enough to be a representative sample, rather say that their experience was universal and moreover represents a conclusive argument against an entire region's vehicular products.
For example the "I had 3 Chevys blow engines --- I'll never buy American again and you shouldn't either" type. Come on guys... I had a good Toyota but that doesn't make all imports good (or bad).
My neighbors own Fords, Chevys, and Dodges. They seem to like them, but that doesn't mean that all domestics are good (or bad). Even if you've owned a broad array of types and brands, or know others whose experience is being added to your own, your sample size is still FAR too narrow and open to misinterpretation.
We're kinda stuck with the data from "Consumer Reports", JD Powers, and the like because their data sample size is in the 10s of thousands of owners, and thus provides a prospective owner an idea of where problems are and what their chances are of having the same (I'm only referring to the compiled data from consumers -- not the opinion sections of these publications).
FYI; My current vehicles are an 08 Nissan Altima and an 07 Jeep Wrangler. Both are performing VERY well... so far.
31st Dec 2008, 17:55
Good point 07:55. I prefer first-hand experience myself, and mine has shown overwhelmingly that domestic vehicles are much more reliable. We've owned imports and domestics and the evidence was was clear enough that the best value was the domestic every time, whether it came from Ford, GM or Chrysler. We no longer buy imports, though I do test drive them before buying just to keep up with changes in them. So far I haven't been impressed.
Like you, I see a very minute number of Tundras on the streets. No one I know owns a newer one, and the ones that bought first generation models are sick of them and will trade for domestics. I think in the past 6 months I may have actually seen 2 new Tundras. I see that many new GM or Ford trucks every day.