3rd Jun 2008, 20:24

I have NEVER said that newer imports are worse than older ones. All the imports we owned were built in the 80's and early 90's. Not one of them was one iota better than any of our domestics from that same era.

The best, longest lasting car our family ever owned was a 1975 Ford. It was driven to work daily for 18 years and had well over 300,000 miles. No import our family ever owned went that far. I definitely don't buy the "imports have gotten worse" line. They were crap 20 years ago too.

3rd Jun 2008, 21:44

11:04 Right on. This is the experience that just about everyone has with Toyota's. They eventually gain the sense to switch from domestic crap to something much better, and buy Toyota's or Honda's, and are impressed.

Just read that GM is closing a bunch or a few truck plants. While I feel bad for the workers, this is the position that GM has created for itself. If you continue to sell people junk, eventually all of the slick advertising fails to work, people realize that they bought junk, and switch to something better.

Toyota is opening plants here in the U.S. and GM is closing them down. As it should be. Each is reaping what they sow.

4th Jun 2008, 11:40

GM is closing plants due to slumping SUV and truck sales. They depend on those sales more than Toyota, so when the market is down they get affected more. Toyota isn't escaping the downfall either. Near where I live they are building a plant for Highlander trucks.. guess what? They're pushing back the opening date to 2010 due to slumping truck/SUV sales. They probably would stop building if they could, but hey if I invested tens of millions dollar into something, I would finish the project.

4th Jun 2008, 12:57

Again, 21:44 gives not a SHRED of evidence, documentation, or even personal experience with GM in his comment.

He also distorts the news of GM's truck plant "closings" into a pointless (and false) argument that it is because of poor build quality.

Ford, GM and Chrysler are ALL are SWITCHING some of their truck plants to build smaller, more fuel efficient vehicles due to the outrageous price of gas, NOT any lack of quality (companies that build poor quality vehicles DO NOT warranty them for 100,000 miles!!).

Ford is switching its Mexico plant from large trucks to the small and VERY fuel efficient Fiesta (which is not sold yet in the U.S.). Ford has also INCREASED production of the fuel efficient Focus by 30% to meet the INCREASED demand for them. Sales of the Focus were UP 23% last quarter. Even Toyota is delaying the opening of its Tupelo, Mississippi plant a year because of the weakened market and high gas prices.

Virtually EVERY automotive source is in full agreement that the new Camry, Tundra and Yaris are not very good cars and trucks. As another comment has so aptly pointed out, even the extremely biased publications are now forced by the overwhelming crop of FACTS to drop their recommendations of the Camry and Tundra

4th Jun 2008, 13:14

My title "no more GM" was from my frustration of owning a Chevy truck, I am not a salesperson or representative otherwise of any import company.

Like I said a few posts earlier, we have a Windstar, and we love it. I don't care where a vehicle is made. Good is good, bad is bad. The Chevy was a joke, the Tundra has served loyal for 6 plus years, as has the ford van.

It just so happens every vehicle in my past that made me want to pull my hair out in frustration was a GM. That's where the "no more Gm" came from. Ford- I would give another chance. GM - never will give them another chance.

You guys going on and on about how bad NEW tundras are... go post on the 2008. IF you own one and can speak from experience... which I doubt you can.

4th Jun 2008, 16:13

Tundra sales are down as well. Is it so far fetched to assume that the full size truck plants are due to high fuel costs? I guess you conveniently left that factor out its 100% quality but wait... What is more an illustration of quality is Toyotas current #5 satisfaction ranking with current owners. GM is number 2, VW again in number 1 spot.

Lets look at it another way; total sales are up for small fuel efficient cars... not many are willing to spend $85 or more per tank in their full size truck. I appreciate high quality, handling, room, towing capability; that's why I have a new Silverado with a better reliability rating in 2008 and far superior warranty. I'll spend more for gas as I am quality oriented and not price driven. But I do appreciate the plight of many families with mortgages, rising food costs, fuel expense; in fact everything seems to have gone up. Something has to give for many families, and either cutting driving way back or buying high mpg vehicles... sales of Tundras were never significant anyway compared to the big 3. Ford alone over 7 times as many Tundras trucks sold.

Are you commenting on small car sales being up over gas pricing again on a full size truck review? Did you drive a new Tundra and a full size GM truck yet? I picked up the difference in less than 5 minutes.

5th Jun 2008, 11:14

We can afford fuel for our current large GM SUV, but will not buy another large vehicle because we don't really need or want another one. That is the opinion of the HUGE number of people who are switching to smaller vehicles, NOT any perceived difference in build quality.

The number of ads for used large trucks and SUV's in our local newspaper has QUADRUPLED over the past few months. That includes a HUGE number of Highlanders, Tundras and Sequoias. The number of car ads has DECREASED.

More people are opting to keep their fuel-efficient cars and sell their larger vehicles. We do not pull a trailer or have a large family, and we feel that our GM compact rides as well and drives better than our SUV, so we will, when the time comes to trade, buy another small vehicle simply because it is more economical and sensible for us.

I think that is the reason smaller vehicles are selling well, not any difference in quality. Everything I read tends to indicate that domestic vehicles are more reliable than imports, so we will most likely buy another GM.

5th Jun 2008, 11:57

Let's get some facts straight shall we? These "horrible" problems that you mention in regards to Toyota are for the following problems:

1: The V6, 6 speed Camry had - read again HAD a problem with a snap ring not being seated correctly, which in some cases caused the transmission to shift in a jerking fashion. The problem has already been corrected, yet you all act as if this happened yesterday.

2: The redesigned Tundra had an initial - yes INITIAL problem with 20,000 cams that were machined incorrectly from an American supplier - which I find somewhat ironic since these see-saw arguments seem to be heavily patriotic and nothing more. Again, this problem has been corrected.

Lastly, let's look at that report that seems to permeate every argument in regards to how "bad" toyota is. The latest JD power for June, 2008 report by brand is as follows:

1: Porsche

2: Infiniti (Nissan luxury brand)

3: Lexus (Toyota's luxury brand, some models based on the Camry)

4: Mercedes Benz

5: Toyota

6: Mercury

7: Honda

8: Ford

9: Jaguar

10: Audi

11: Cadillac

12: Chevrolet

13: Hyundai

14: Pontiac

15: Lincoln

And so on. Basically, Nissan, Toyota, and two upper end luxury cars made it to the top. Lexus is basically a Toyota with all the trimmings, so in reality, two of the top five were Toyota products. You have to scroll down to no.11 before you get to any GM brands. Mercury is admirably at no.6, but still below Toyota, and in reality, Mercury's offering include the Mariner and Montego-both heavily reliant on Mazda engines and platforms. So that easily explains their higher placement.

So the story isn't any different than it has been. Promises of better quality but nothing to show. Improved? Yes. Better? No.