14th Jan 2009, 12:34
11:41 I maintain my domestic full size drivetrain is far superior to the Tundra; the topic of this review?
Explain how such a limited Toyota large truck lineup surpasses better load, towing capability, ride, handling, better cost to own over 5 years on Edmunds with my new GM Silverado and with a far superior warranty. It drifts off over and over to fuel efficient little cars. There is just no basis of comparison comparing a little car to large full size trucks carrying loads and towing. The little imports drivetrain and weak bumper will be splattered all over the road. Hook up a hitch and fill the trunk up. Ever see the Home Depot picture of the overloaded car with building materials that a fool tried to use as a truck? Good gas mileage on the way there empty however.
I have never bought a new full size truck and discussed Civics, Corollas, Focue, Cobalts when I write my check for a new full size. If I were buying a little truck, I could see it to a point, but not full size models.
14th Jan 2009, 19:20
It would be nice to see a SOURCE cited for these "surveys". Where and when were they done? In what source were they published? (let me guess: A Toyota sales brochure, no doubt). We've asked repeatedly for a VALID and VERIFIABLE frequency of repair comparison. If you have it, please provide it (of course I won't hold my breath).
15th Jan 2009, 16:51
I buy new Silverados. With the amount of driving and towing I do, my Toyota warranty would be up in 1 1/2 years.
Length of ownership is one thing... actual mileage and especially much of it towing brings out a vehicle's strengths and weaknesses.
I buy new ones and sell around 80,000. There hasn't been any issues at that mileage other than I like newer features and order either more options or less of others not being used. I also examine aftermarket products that add versatility.
I like the utility of a fully functional full size pick up bed and hate caps. I went with an aftermarket Trac Rac system with my Knaack Weatherguard box, cargo containment that can be locked or easily removed with the slide rail system. Keeps the clean lines of the truck.
I personally dislike a lot of aftermarket garbage... load of lights and gaudy exterior accessories and the huge noisy hard riding tires and lifts.
I like upgrading engine performance without a lot of advertisement.
I'm not having repair issues. Granted I do not keep every truck 250,000 miles by choice, not out of necessity. I like drivability, handling, features, ride and great warranty that so far I haven't had to use.
I am fickle for the best and latest new vehicle... if I like something I move on it. If Toyota ever makes a better full size truck, I may buy one someday... it's not now.
15th Jan 2009, 22:28
19:20 I can't remember the specific source, and no, it wasn't a Toyota brochure, of course. I listed it a while back; something like Edmunds, maybe Consumer Reports; domestic fans on this site chose to simply tell me I was wrong or that the source was wrong, so why would I bother looking it up again? If I can't convince them of simple facts, then I'm done arguing because their opinions don't matter anyway. It's the same as telling them that the air they breathe has oxygen in it, and then they ask where I read it and tell me I'm wrong. I'm not looking up the source again only to have some Ford fan tell me that the facts are wrong and their opinion is right.
Toyota's make less trips to the garage. Fact. Period. Do some research and you'll come up with the same information. We Toyota owners already knew it without being told.
16th Jan 2009, 14:40
Why argue with strangers? Your opinion is your opinion... period. Not everyone shares the same repair warranty and out of warranty experiences, based on their own personal direct ownership, especially recent imports.... period.
The nice thing about this site is reading many collective comments, going to consumeraffairs.com and buying the car you like owning and driving the best as well... period. Maybe I just had a few import lemons in a row, maybe just a remarkable coincidence. I like seeing everyone testing both... if that's not a valid an argument (which you seem to prefer) what is?
17th Jan 2009, 05:34
A lot of people on here have made frequent trips to the garage and are commenting on that fact. First hand ownership strikes a nerve more so than someone than read something somewhere, but forgot where it was. And then say that's a fact, that's the way it is. Go to consumeraffairs.com and look at Toyota... newer ones. I remember seeing what I wanted to know on there. That's a fact, and I remember where I read it.
17th Jan 2009, 06:10
OK, since I'm bored at the moment and have a few minutes, I will yet again prove all of these domestic fans completely wrong. You say the Big 3 make better automobiles than Toyota and Honda. You are wrong, and here's just a few examples of the proof that's already been offered here many times: These are printed from:
1. Motor Trend: without quoting, they say (in 2008) that Ford leads the domestics in reliability, GM is a mixed bag, and Dodge doesn't even enter into the running with only TWO vehicles with an average reliability rating. Japanese automobiles are still the most reliable, by a large margin.
2. Consumer Reports: "Ford's new sedan's shine among the domestics, but Japanese are still the most reliable by far" (their words). Quoting again (2008).."Of the 47 vehicles studied, (top 47 most reliable) 39 were Japanese, and only 7 of those were anything other than Toyota or Honda." More proof.
3. More from Motor Trend: Top 5 most reliable brands. 1. Scion 2. Acura 3. Honda 4. Toyota 5. Lexus. All Japanese. Proof again.
4. Car and Driver: Japanese cars are the most reliable, with Toyota's Prius leading all others.
Is that enough proof for you? I can find a lot more just like this. Ford, while improving, is not anywhere close to the reliability of Japanese cars. GM is extremely hit and miss, not really in the running, and Chrysler is basically a joke. Not even in the running.
So... other than stories about long-running domestics that are impossible to prove, let's see some proof from you domestic owners. The fact is, you won't offer any because it doesn't exist. Read the information above again. There are the facts. And by the way, citing the Ford Fusion doesn't mean anything. ONE car from a domestic automaker doesn't save Ford from sub-par ratings overall, and GM and Dodge don't even have a leg to stand on.
Other than your opinions, I'd be interested to see what you come up with. There's your proof, AGAIN.
14th Jan 2009, 11:41
11:51 I don't want to see the demise of the Big 3 either. I truly hope they continue to improve and actually offer Toyota and Honda some competition. Not likely though. Toyota and Honda have decades of brilliant engine design under their belts and each of the Big 3 may just be beginning to realize the fact that they need to make something comparable to those imports. It'll take a lot longer to actually do it. Toyota and Honda have specialized in making the most efficient, reliable vehicles anywhere, and are rated as the highest in both categories. Overall. No, I don't need to hear about the Ford Fusion's "initial quality" ratings all over again. That's one car, and it's no match for the imports' proven track record of long term reliability; something that the Big 3 haven't lived up to.
I just have a problem with the logic of the domestic fans: how they justify their opinions such as "Ford is good" and "Toyota is bad" makes absolutely no sense. You can't single out ONE car like the Fusion and pretend it makes all Ford's decent. And you can't point to one single problem that Toyota has had and condemn the whole line.
The fact that these domestic owners like to skirt around is that Toyota, Honda, and Japanese automobiles in general have been wiping the floor with the Big 3 for a couple decades, consistently, when it comes to quality and reliability ratings. That's a fact. If some Ford owner out there doesn't agree with it; too bad. Still fact.
It's also fact that domestics make more return trips the garage. Also fact; proven by surveys conducted on original owners of 3 year old cars... the domestics make more warranty (and out of warranty) trips back to the garage. They break down more and have more issues. Fact. Again, if a Ford owner out there doesn't like that, too bad. Still fact.