17th Jan 2009, 11:17
We're STILL waiting for you to cite some PROOF of this. Opinions based on 20-year-old domestics with 200,000 miles on them are not valid. Just WHERE are we to find this mythical "research"?? Please CITE SOURCES.
17th Jan 2009, 11:20
How can any automotive magazine, after driving a car several miles, make ANY valid assessment of how RELIABLE it is? Only genuine frequency of repair records can do this. I'd like to see THOSE (but I know I won't).
17th Jan 2009, 15:54
Just to solidify the facts a little more, here's some more proof of Japanese auto reliability from Consumer Reports:
- All 10 of their most reliable automobiles, from every category (small car, family car, small truck, etc) were Japanese with the exception of one; the Pontiac Vibe. 9 out of 10.
- Most reliable small cars? All Toyota and Honda. The whole list.
- Family cars? Top 4 were Toyota's and Honda's. Yeah, the great hope of Ford fans, the Fusion was in there. Behind two Toyota's and two Honda's, of course.
- Best large cars? All six were Japanese, with the exception of one Lincoln, which was third or fourth place
- Luxury cars? Lexus (obviously) and Infiniti.
- "Sporty" cars? All 6 Japanese.
- Wagons/minivans; the Pontiac Vibe came in first, the rest were all Japanese. 4 of 5.
- Small SUV's; all 6 Japanese, topped (of course) by; guess... Toyota and Honda. Same with large SUV's; all 6 Toyota/Honda.
- Pickup trucks? All four Japanese. Of course.
17th Jan 2009, 21:16
05:34 Which part of consumeraffairs were you talking about? The part where they said "Toyota has one of the highest customer satisfaction records around and is about to displace GM as the leading auto seller?" OR... the part where they tell you that Toyota Camry was just named car of the year? OR... the part where it explains how Toyota, already the most fuel efficient vehicles in the world (along with Honda) are redesigning their already superior engines to increase gas mileage by 5%?
OR...well, I could go on and on. Yeah, I read the negative comments by owners. Guess what? If you're hunting for dirt about Toyota, I can guarantee you that for every ounce you find about Toyota, I will provide you with a TON for each of the Big 3. Toyota's are the better vehicles, obviously.
18th Jan 2009, 10:17
Consumer Reports findings ARE based on frequency of repair records. Toyota and Honda break down less - there's your proof. Yet again.
I offer proof from credible sources; several of them, Ford and GM fans offer nothing but opinion and stories.
18th Jan 2009, 13:34
21:16 obviously you did not read the earlier consumeraffairs.com Toyota mechanical issues; sludging, braking, air bags links.
I know you will refer to a fuel filler on Fords vs. condemn your own brand. It's amazing the "head in the sand" viewpoint based on ownership of a 15 year old small import truck and a few small cars next door. I wish I could have "found you" when I was presented with high import repair bills. Maybe it would have been free because it's absolutely impossible to follow exact manufacturer recommended dealer service intervals on multiple new imports, where it's literally impossible never have a major issue.
I can go for free mechanical repairs; where do you recommend, and what dealership do you have that will eliminate my concerns? Dream on my friend.
It literally drops to small imports and cars on a full size truck review... Tundras should be selling bumper to bumper, tractor trailer loads, as they are the best. I was quite unimpressed driving them. Guess I should test drive a Scion before my next new truck requirement.
18th Jan 2009, 13:47
17th Jan 2009, 15:54.
Just wanted to correct something you typed. The Pontiac Vibe is a re-badged Toyota Matrix. The Pontiac salespeople will even brag about this if you go to the lot and look at one of them. I found this out last year when my wife wanted a new vehicle, and the Vibe was listed as one she wanted to look at.
18th Jan 2009, 18:12
So what large SUV's and large pick up relevance were commented upon while you are on a full size truck review?
The thing with publications is you can pick and choose. I maintain the best way to buy a full size truck is make a large list of criteria and see who has the most elements present before you buy. Do not forget to test drive them all. The last thing you want to do is be stuck with a long term car loan riding in a crappy riding vehicle. I read someone bought a Checker for reliability... great, would I ever want one? Hardly.
I would rather research the specs loads, towing, ride, handling, people carrying capability, features, best warranty. I did that and did not buy a Tundra. If you are buying a Prius maybe your theory works.
It's important to get as many elements as you need and buy a new full size pickup. Application for a full size is the most important... it's likely the negative commenter even owns a new full size as their comments seem carlike or very small in their approach.
I walk in a dealer and tell them straight up I have towing in mind. I want reliability as well and not a lousy warranty that is up in our house in under 2 years. Owning a full size truck that is being functional, not just a substitute for a car or because it has higher ground clearance to off road, is not enough to perhaps move up and consider the advantages of full size truck ownership.
This has become a car and light truck review it seems... remember what the topic is. If you are spending another $10,000 plus, is there ever an application in mind over the small vehicle mentality? But if you never buy or own one, this may totally escape your reasoning.
17th Jan 2009, 09:53
The best proof is going to an import dealer waiting area and watching us write out the big checks for repair.
First hand direct ownership is the most telling of all. Why not encourage everyone to get behind the wheel and test drive every single new available vehicle in their price range? You can use publications to certainly help you. Since this is about full size trucks or at least it use to be... get out and drive them.
I am 6'2, maybe the seating position even with adjustments is awful... maybe the 5'1" driver cannot get in a decent enough position to drive and have to pay for a dreadful ride for 4 years.
What motor, gearing are you in the mountains or driving flat expressionless roadways. What are you carrying load wise or towing? Instead of carrying armfuls of publications, bring printouts off your computer or study specs pertaining to the specific vehicle you are buying. Maybe carrying Scion info to the dealership when they order a new full size truck may help the dealer salesman get a higher price from you.
I get the best buy when they know I have tested both import and domestic and they better work hard before and after the sale. I am a repeat buyer; it was one import after another for years and I am sure we were hosed. When your car or truck quit running and you are late for work or upset repeat visits, you look around.
If the Tundra is so terrific, why such dismal sales results even when the economy was going full speed a while back? Have you ever driven brand new domestic full sizes and then a Tundra the same day. Or is it walking around a lot on Sunday when the dealerships are closed looking at paint and peering in windows? I couldn't be bothered.... I have a requirement or specific applications and I get the keys.
Go from one dealer to another while the driving experience is fresh and get the greatest list of elements addressed. Then I write a check and waste no one's time.