19th Jan 2009, 17:44

"This has become a car and light truck review it seems"

Yup and that's what the Toyota Tundra is -- a light truck (even if this thread has been hijacked). It was rated to tow somewhere between 6500-7200lbs and was designed to be a light half-ton pickup for folks who needed that. Do you need more? Buy something different. Toyota made no claim that this truck could do more.

"Only genuine frequency of repair records can do this. I'd like to see THOSE (but I know I won't) ".

Check out "Consumer Reports". That is what the name implies. It is a frequency of repair record. Please understand that their auto reviews aren't the same as their repair records. Their reviews are subjective; their data is a compilation of thousands of owners' experiences. I've even filled out their surveys a couple of times. They aren't very interested in what you FEEL about your vehicle. Mostly they just want to know what has broken on it.

"We're STILL waiting for you to cite some PROOF of this. Opinions based on 20-year-old domestics with 200,000 miles on them are not valid. Just WHERE are we to find this mythical "research"?? Please CITE SOURCES".

Again refer above. If your assertion becomes that somehow "Consumer Reports" has messed with the numbers, you may want to provide examples of the successful lawsuits that proved the same. Plus if you make that claim, you discredit the most reputable large-scale compiler of owner surveys in order to reinforce an over-small sample or prejudice.

Nevertheless there are some very good reasons to buy domestic. American manufacturers are better at muscle cars. They make the best off-roader (Wrangler). They make the best vehicles for trailering. Heavy-duty stuff is mostly American. Usually American vehicles come with a better warranty. They have amazing heritage. And, to top it off, American autos are getting MUCH better in every way quickly.

I used to own a Tundra. It was a very reliable truck. But it was a LIGHT truck designed for lighter loads and lighter pulling. It was no competitor for 3/4 and 1 ton pickups. Nor was it a competitor for a Jeep off-road. It was just a competent light-duty truck.

Finally it's funny that the anti-foreign crowd refers mostly to Asian manufacturers. Why? What about the Germans? They're foreign. I heard no complaints that the Dodge van is a Mercedes. Why not? All the same arguments apply. Patriotism is an issue either way. Why is it that 700 comments end up on Japanese vs. American threads but nothing comparable seems to exist elsewhere? There seems to be a double standard for "foreign". Just a friendly observation...

19th Jan 2009, 21:04

13:47 Thanks. Now I understand how a so-called domestic could win a reliability rating over other Toyota's. It IS one. I thought someone had made a huge mistake.

19th Jan 2009, 21:13

As a Toyota owner, I've been challenged to offer proof and have clearly done so. My case rests. Still waiting for something from the Ford and Chevy owners other than opinion and storys. Something tells me I'll have a LONG wait, since they know I'm right and can only offer opinion and personal preference, neither of which constitutes fact.

I have fun watching them try to make a case though. I guess I'm supposed to believe stories about their favorite Fords and ignore the expert opinion of every leading automotive publication out there... I do get a kick out of this.

20th Jan 2009, 14:52

18th Jan 2009, 15:59,

There were several posts that specifically listed various publications, reports, surveys, and reviews that ALL listed Japanese cars as generally better than those produced by Domestic automakers. Could you address this or simply keep stating that we have no "proof". The proof has been given. Several times.

Secondly, Japanese car manufactures are setup all over the Southeast where I live. They greatly benefit the local economy and the people's lives who work there. That the big Three exist in the rust belt where the economy is falling apart isn't very telling of how beneficial the big three have been. So not to sound cold, but so what. I could care less if the company is foreign or domestic. Either way, there are many in places like KY, TN, and AL who have good lives because of "foreign" companies.

Lastly, even if the big three survive, their product lineup is becoming increasingly off shored. Cars like the Vibe, Fusion, Aveo, Pontiac GTO, C6, Taurus, and many others have foreign underpinnings. Even some of the new Buick concepts were actually designed in China. In other words, the big Three have not exactly been good stewards in regards to keeping American jobs. This has been shown time and again, with plants built in Mexico, Canada, Brazil, and now even China and Korea. They're a business that must compete on a global scale, and with the high cost of union labor, that means progressively moving operations overseas. So even if you buy a brand-new Chevy with a Chevy badge, there's a good chance that it's actually more "import" than the imports made in KY. Think about that for a minute. Its certainly not the romantic image of the factory worker toiling in a Ohio plant.

Anyhow, I'm sure this argument will be never-ending. Oh well.

20th Jan 2009, 18:58

21:13 you have spent a tremendous amount of time on the Tundra thread... since you are sold on one, when are you going to purchase a new Tundra and join the proud ranks of full size truck ownership?

There has yet to be any application discussion coming forth just how you have interpreted others. I guess you do not have to own a specific type of category, however why devote so much time to a vehicle that you do not have an interest in acquiring? Anyone on here can run out and buy a magazine, but perhaps would like to be enlightened further by direct ownership daily issues, drivability etc. It adds a lot of credibility starting a comment " I have a owned a Tundra for the past couple of years and have found the following... Not what your next door neighbor has or a family member.

My mother has had new cars I have no clue about or have not even driven. I cannot write a valid summary on them as it's secondhand. I will spend more for a larger full size truck mainly because of the applications... am I solo on this? I somehow think that others buying at this point and time are doing the same. They need them. I suspect you have literature all about your arm chair..... I have a new full size truck in my driveway based on a list of criteria and road tests. I had to get out of the chair to do so and I decided and bought. Not a Tundra.