30th Jan 2009, 10:28
15:52 what better comment than to buy a personal brand new full size truck and comment that you do like it. It's nice reading again about the V6 Camry, how thought provoking on a full size truck review.
What is the favorite feature you like about your new Tundra? I own a new full size Silverado... rather than peruse articles as none of these publications buy my vehicles, I get out of my chair and drive.
When you researched your brand new full size truck, what made you buy one rather than a small car or small truck? If you do not own one, I wonder what exactly would be the stimulus to buy the large models? Usually it's applications that prompts the decision.
I never talk about small cars and small trucks in the same context... there's zero utility mentioned.
The repair factor keeps popping up, but there's no point of addressing until an actual need is established. I like a 100,000 mile warranty and in fact have not had reason to use it. I have my truck (s) subjected to actual applications, towing, bed loads, people carrying not carrying light loads or empty. Do you tow or carry anything, or is it about a Camry?
30th Jan 2009, 12:52
That's a great question. In the CR surveys I filled out, minor things like that usually end up in the general "body integrity" category. They don't simply filter them out. Also CR often releases data sooner than 2 years in their annual auto issue, but not in the buying guide.
As far as the differences that show up between two reliability reporting publications;
#1 They probably have slightly different methods for reporting and weighting the data.
#2 They may have different minimum sample sizes.
#3 They may have different methods for gathering data
#4 There are anomalous differences all the time, even within the same publication, which makes looking for multi-year trends a good idea.
#5 There may be differences in the regions that were reported upon (for example, one publication may be sampling European BMW 3 Series while the other is sampling the American version).
It's nice to have more than one place to look for info. JD Powers reports especially on initial quality. CR reports on long term reliability. Car and Driver reports primarily on performance aspects of vehicles. Other mags emphasize luxury. Some sites emphasize anecdotal stuff that can be used to help you find out where a vehicle's problem areas are, and how well the dealers and manufacturers respond.
And no one should overlook the all-important test drive. One guy on here has complained that no one seems to decide what truck they drive based upon capacities and capability. I think most serious buyers would indeed look at those considerations as primary ones, but this discussion has been sidetracked by the reliability debate. Anyway, cheers.
30th Jan 2009, 13:41
10:28 asks some very good questions. In choosing new full size trucks, my family's companies use the following criteria:
1) Does the truck have a good track record? ALL domestics do, Tundra DOES NOT.
2) Does the truck have a good warranty? ALL domestics do, Tundra DOES NOT.
3) Is the purchase price realistic? ALL domestics are, Tundra is NOT.
4) Will the dealer in your area stand behind the vehicle? In our area Ford DOES NOT, GM DOES, Dodge varies, and Toyota is the WORST. The warranty doesn't matter. Toyota (here) won't even repair their vehicles that ARE under warranty.
5) Can the truck be relied upon to perform daily without undue down time? ALL domestics can, Tundra CANNOT.
It should be easy to see why none of our fleet is anything other than domestic.
30th Jan 2009, 13:55
"It's like asking for frequency of repair records, It's not gonna happen!!"
Particularly if you don't read them when they're presented. AGAIN, and listen carefully, all the data you could ever want on compiled frequency of repair records is available from Consumer Reports (and truedelta, apparently). It's not as if this is an endorsement for the Tundra. Consumer Reports doesn't recommend the 07 and says that even after the problems with the engine were addressed, its still only rated average. It also shows that earlier Tundras had brake issues. So don't be afraid to check.
"What is the statistical probability that 30 domestic vehicles from all three domestic makers would ALL be perfect while ALL THREE of our imports were lemons?? I'm eagerly waiting for some math wizard to run the odds on this, but something tells me it will never happen."
The odds have to be astronomical, especially in light of the repair data over the implied time span. Certainly no one would fault you for choosing domestics if, in fact, what you said is the unvarnished truth. The trouble is... I don't know you. Likely no one else on this forum does either. So why should we take the word of a stranger whom we've never met over the large-scale data of respected consumer organizations especially if the premise is that ALL domestic vehicles=good; all foreign vehicles=bad?
I've had my own set of experiences with my own vehicles and those of friends and have seen problems with all -- foreign and domestic. I'm not going to try to get you to buy anything you don't believe in. You aren't going to convince a stranger to do that either. Most serious buyers probably DO look at vehicles from many perspectives before purchase to determine if it will suit their needs. They buy the vehicle that is capable, reliable, reputable, affordable, and available. So your argument runs far shy of compelling, no matter how often you repeat it.
30th Jan 2009, 22:18
10:28 The argument here pertains to ANY Toyota versus any domestic (Ford, Dodge, GM) vehicle. The fact is, no domestic is as good as any Toyota. Because, Toyota clearly puts much more time and effort into every step of the practice of making automobiles.
From the very beginning, in research and design, testing, to actual assembly, Toyota is far superior. They build the most reliable, highest quality cars and trucks in the world. Period.
They are number ONE in surveys concerning customer satisfaction... are the owners happy with their vehicles? Toyota ranks first. As it should be. It's about the fact that some people can't stand the fact the Japanese cars and trucks are of higher quality.
As if the Dodge Neon or Chevy Cobalt is as good a car as a Corolla or Civic. These are the same people who think that a Silverado is as good a truck as a Tundra. Not even close.
29th Jan 2009, 23:32
There have been some comments about the two year delay in Consumer Reports reliability data. An good alternate to look at is www.truedelta.com. The results come much quicker there.
Most of the time the results match what I see in Consumer Reports. But some things make a lot more sense over there. For instance I know 3 people with BMW 3-series cars. All of them have things breaking at least once a year. Truedelta shows BMW cars having more problems than other cars, but Consumer Reports shows the 3-series as better than average in reliability. It could be a matter of Consumer Reports filtering out problems they don't think matter? I don't know.
My next door neighbor had her BMW coffee cup holder break 4 times. Each time she paid $140 to get it fixed at the dealership. At Truedelta, that would be reported in the general category of successful repair. At Consumer Reports, I assume that would be filtered out because they say they only report serious problems.