1st Feb 2009, 08:46
I agree with most of what you said, but fuel economy and pricing ARE a part of most purchases be they a small car or a full-size truck... regardless of the mentality of those on this forum.
1st Feb 2009, 08:52
The 13:41 comment is the best you've read huh? DOMESTIC trucks have a good track record? Do yourself a favor and look up recalls for ANY of Ford, Chevy, or Dodge's full size trucks. How's that track record look now?
As far as purchase price, when it comes to full size trucks, you'll get what you pay for. If you want the better Toyota, you'll pay more for it. Same difference as between a Chevy Cavalier or a Toyota Corolla. (Please: don't suggest that the Cavalier is even close to as good) The vast difference in quality is reflected in the price.
I have a good friend that continues to buy full size domestic trucks; he refuses to buy Toyota's. His last full size Dodge Ram had SIX warranty recalls inside of the first six months. Seat belts and airbags, wheel bearings twice, I can't remember the others. He called that a piece of junk (it was) and bought an F-150, which, since day ONE has had a bad hesitation in the acceleration that Ford tells him is normal, as well as the fact that it overheats and is completely gutless when pulling his camper, which is well under the weight that that truck is SUPPOSED to be able to handle. At this rate, his transmission is going to be gone in under 50,000 miles, typical Ford at that, and the engine is going to be scrap.
Typical Ford yet again. He won't buy another GM, because once had an s-10 with that miserable 4.3 liter engine that simply consumed itself at around 45,000 miles if I remember correctly. It was under 50,000.
So I ask him finally, after he sees me driving (and towing) with Toyota's and having NO trouble..."why won't you buy a Toyota?" He basically says, "Look, I'll deny saying this if you repeat it, but I KNOW Toyota's are better, I just won't buy one."
Is this the mentality that you domestic guys ALL have? You know at heart Toyota's are better. All the proof in the world is out there. Do you all have this sort of denial going on? I can see if you need the equivalent of an F-350, because Toyota doesn't make one; then I guess you have to settle for a domestic. But if you're buying an F-150 instead of a Tundra, or ANY domestic car, for any reason, well... it doesn't add up. You're willingly buying a sub standard vehicle.
1st Feb 2009, 14:34
Ha! I certainly don't know any such thing, that "Toyotas are better." My own experience tells me what vehicles have been trouble-free, and nicer to drive and ride in.
My experience has been that for cars of the 1960s and 1970's, Dodge/Plymouth/Chrysler made the most reliable cars; for the 1980's, Dodge trucks and Plymouths were still good; for the 1990's our GM's (Chevrolet, Pontiac, and Cadillac) did well; and starting in the late 1990's into the 2000's, Ford and Mercury has been the best.
As for Toyota, well... anemic, underpowered, rattling cars and trucks that ride like go-carts and haywagons are not for me.
The modern day Fords and Mercuries are the best riding and driving cars that I've driven of any decade, and that is born out by the high marks that Consumer Reports and J.D. Powers, as well as CNN gives to them.
2nd Feb 2009, 14:28
Since it's 2009 and I find your comments not accurate in our household. Whats with the S-10 comment? Small truck yet again, and was that not replaced by the Colorado? How about some recent new comments on full sizes?
I did not like the Ram, but I would certainly place it ahead of my choice of the 2009 Tundra.
If it interests the fuel misers, some of the equivalent small Silverados have better MPG than the latest Tundra same small class.
I have experienced zero issues on my late model full sizes they are exceptional. Tundra cannot even compete in my tow category - very limited offering.
2nd Feb 2009, 15:33
2001 F150 Lariat King Cab, 115,000 hard miles.
Problems since new: 2 coil packs (first one at 94,000 and the second at 112,000 total cost $120 for parts, I do my own work.) and a recall on the cruise control which was taken care of last week without questions or hassle. I had my truck back in an hour and a half, while the dealership shuttle brought me to and from the bar. Truck runs and drives like new.
2002 Toyota Tundra SR5 Limited, 102,000 not so hard miles.
Problems since new: BRAKES, BRAKES BRAKES! Ball joints, fuel pump, dash lights, exhaust hangers breaking constantly, coolant leaks, misses at idle and acceleration sometimes (he's still trying to figure out what's wrong), now getting worse gas mileage than my truck, heater core.
And he STILL says Toyota is the best and his truck is better than mine!
Must be the mentality of Toyota owners, even though their car/truck/van/SUV breaks down a lot, it's still a Toyota and therefore it's still the best!
1st Feb 2009, 06:46
13:41 has the best response I have seen.
I also drive company vehicles since 1984, as well as my own personal vehicles. Not owning these vehicles, there's no bias. You can hate them if they stink and not feel like you have a dime in them.
I have found starting and stopping and driving long distances on a daily basis what holds up. My best have been Ford Crown Victorias with the small V8. Since I only have to pay for personal fuel and taxed on personal use to select any additional vehicle, it has to be very functional and have applications.
I test drove the new full sizes and bought the newest Silverados, mostly over the nice ride and handling, but Ford was fine too. I did not like the Tundra to even consider one, and I also did not like the Ram. I had one for an entire day, however real terrible ride.
Maybe you can read magazines for some guidance, but what is the new dealer giving you? If you don't drive these vehicles and then hate the ride, handling characteristics and capabilities, no magazine is going to overcome the letdown. Warranty in place is important as well... no warranty left at very early age gives you zero leg to stand on.
It amazes me the ones who do not own a full size truck that do not see the applications... it comes up as car comments or fuel economy. By not owning one it's perhaps understandable, but for us to pay more, added insurance when I already have a new company car there are specific needs not just an empty truck to cruise about.
I like the spreadsheet concept listing every single element you want and expect in a new full size truck... features, benefits, function, options, strength, bed loads, towing, ride, handling, best warranty, best ride, best handling, appearance (subjective), family input that ride in for hours, dealer proximity, dealer follow up for a few.
Add up on the features and capabilities... I actually left off pricing and fuel economy, which shows I do not possess the small car, vehicle thinking that seems to be so important to the non new full size truck owners on here. Test drive and then buy, and not waste your time.